Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > The Fantasy Trip > The Fantasy Trip: House Rules

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-20-2018, 08:15 PM   #251
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: HEAL spell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
Maybe maybe not, but not the point I was hoping to communicate.
It's the important point. Yes, a badass fighter with healer support is better than one without. A badass fighter with lots of other sorts of support is also better than one without, and in fact many of those support options will be superior to healing at the ratios of this spell.
__________________
My GURPS site and Blog.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2018, 08:36 PM   #252
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Default Heal spells and -2 DX for stunning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bofinger View Post
Are you sure? Because I look at Zaxzax and I think the battle is being won by the person with more combat magic items. Which is a perfectly reasonable complaint, but not primarily one about healing magic.
Hi David,
I tend to agree with you here.

I think that the point Skarg was trying to make, was fast healing allows combat buffing. If the party is made of a high level guy who can deal out at lot of damage, and everyone has a fair bit of armor (so damage is being done slowly), then buffing the big guy with healing is a big deal.

The big guy does not necessarily have to have a lot of magic for this situation to arise. (And for that matter, if both sides had a big guy with equal magics, it could happen.)

However, such situations come up pretty rarely, in my experience.

But fast healing brings up other questions. If I take 5 hits (so I'm stunned at -2 DX), and I get healed for 2, am I still stunned? We never needed this rule before.

Wizard will be wanted to drop a healing if someone is at permanent negatives.

Warm regards, Rick.
Rick_Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2018, 08:40 PM   #253
JLV
 
JLV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Arizona
Default Re: HEAL spell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Rice View Post

It's easy to say "just include it and then the GM can decide to use it"...
Yes, yes it is. Because I think players should be allowed to chose for themselves. More importantly, I pretty much guarantee that many people have already invented a healing spell or two of their own for the game, and telling those people "You're playing wrong," isn't exactly the most inclusive argument I've ever heard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Rice View Post

...but once it's there, it's there and I think it will be widely used, which I think will be to the detriment of the Wizard character.
Why should you, or anyone else for that matter, care what anyone else does in their game? Why this need to "police" the issue so much? If you don't allow it in your game, I certainly don't plan to get all up in your face about your choice. After all, it's your game, isn't it? Why, then, this intense desire to force everyone to play your way?
JLV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2018, 08:40 PM   #254
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Default Anti Magic zones and healing debuffs.

Hi all,
With fast healing, TFT has gained new tactics. Healing the big guy who is doing the heavy damage. Healing guys who are stunned. Healing guys who are at permanent negatives.

An area spell that stops all magic in an area is now increasingly useful. A cheaper spell that stops all healing magics in an area would be very handy.

Anyone want to take a crack at some healing debuff spells?

Warm regards, Rick.
Rick_Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2018, 07:35 AM   #255
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Default Re: Anti Magic zones and healing debuffs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
... Anyone want to take a crack at some healing debuff spells?

Warm regards, Rick.
None so far??? Well I will have to give one.


In July of 2013 I took over the Thail TFT pbem game that Dave Seagraves had been running. I had a very experienced character 'Flinch' in it. Flinch had no combat talents, but was a combat monster. (That is another story.) Anyway, he was the leader of the "Company of Adventurers", and I had a story that would eventually take 37 months to complete.

But I had a problem, Flinch was the leader of the adventuring group, and I was the GM. I would be just dumb to try to run the party while also GM'ing, so I needed to get rid of my character.

I had Flinch get shot in the face by a cursed crossbow bolt. They pored healing salves on the wound and had Flinch drink healing potions. The wounds would heal for a second and then reopened!!!

The party had never had to deal with such a thing. They panicked a bit, how do you heal serious wounds without magic??? Then they hauled him to a healer's who removed the crossbow bolt and cauterized the wound thru his mouth and nasal cavity. (Flinch, never pretty, got a lot uglier then.)

Flinch's shattered face promptly became infected, and the ship to go into enemy territory was leaving in a couple days. Dan Nicolson's character, Simon, took over control of the party, and they went on to glory.

***

Tho none of the players knew it, the cursed crossbow bolt had this spell cast on it:

IQ 13
S Weapon of Vitiation
Cast on a weapon, it enchants all wounds that are made with that weapon so that they may not be healed by magical means. This includes healing potions, the various healing spells, Revival spells and it prevents Cleansings on wounds that become infected. Wounds made by this weapon must be healed naturally at the normal rate. Casting a Dissolve Enchantment on a wound made by this weapon, will allow magical healings to occur for that wound only.
The enchantment on the wound ends when the wound heals naturally.
This spell calculates DX adjustments and range like thrown spells (but is not affected by the Thrown Spell talents).
This spell will last on a weapon for 1 week or until the first time a sixteen or higher is rolled.
This spell is an enchantment so it is affected by the Rule of Five. The cost of the spell doubles for each previous enchantment on the weapon.
Cost: 7 fST + 7 fST / week

***

When magic gives you a problem, it is traditional to have magic give a solution.

Warm regards, Rick.
Rick_Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2018, 07:56 AM   #256
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Anti Magic zones and healing debuffs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
IQ 13
S Weapon of Vitiation
Cast on a weapon, it enchants all wounds that are made with that weapon so that they may not be healed by magical means. This includes healing potions, the various healing spells, Revival spells and it prevents Cleansings on wounds that become infected. Wounds made by this weapon must be healed naturally at the normal rate. Casting a Dissolve Enchantment on a wound made by this weapon, will allow magical healings to occur for that wound only.
The enchantment on the wound ends when the wound heals naturally.
This spell calculates DX adjustments and range like thrown spells (but is not affected by the Thrown Spell talents).
This spell will last on a weapon for 1 week or until the first time a sixteen or higher is rolled.
This spell is an enchantment so it is affected by the Rule of Five. The cost of the spell doubles for each previous enchantment on the weapon.
Cost: 7 fST + 7 fST / week

***

When magic gives you a problem, it is traditional to have magic give a solution.

Warm regards, Rick.
So is this the MAE doctrine of Mutually Assured Enchantment?
zot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2018, 09:04 AM   #257
Chris Rice
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
Default Re: HEAL spell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLV View Post
Yes, yes it is. Because I think players should be allowed to chose for themselves. More importantly, I pretty much guarantee that many people have already invented a healing spell or two of their own for the game, and telling those people "You're playing wrong," isn't exactly the most inclusive argument I've ever heard.



Why should you, or anyone else for that matter, care what anyone else does in their game? Why this need to "police" the issue so much? If you don't allow it in your game, I certainly don't plan to get all up in your face about your choice. After all, it's your game, isn't it? Why, then, this intense desire to force everyone to play your way?
On your first point, the rules as they stand don't currently contain a Healing Spell. Steve has suggested a Spell which we are discussing here. That's all I'm doing; discussing it and pointing out some potential pitfalls. I'm not telling anyone what to do, just expressing an opinion.

On your second point, my answer is similar to the first; we're discussing whether there should be a Healing Spell in the new edition. To that extent, I want to express my opinion, but only in so far as it relates to the new rules, because my current thinking is that I'd rather they don't change in this respect. What you, or anyone else does with the game after that is entirely up to you.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that I'm trying to tell you what to do. Steve has asked us what we think of including the new spell and we're telling him. Ultimately he will make the decision. We can house rule to our hearts content after that.
Chris Rice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2018, 09:35 AM   #258
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Default Re: Anti Magic zones and healing debuffs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zot View Post
So is this the MAE doctrine of Mutually Assured Enchantment?
Hi Zot, that is exactly what this is. :-D

Warm regards, Rick.
Rick_Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2018, 12:09 PM   #259
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: HEAL spell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
It's the important point. Yes, a badass fighter with healer support is better than one without. A badass fighter with lots of other sorts of support is also better than one without, and in fact many of those support options will be superior to healing at the ratios of this spell.
You may be right. Again, with the Zaxzax post, I was trying to describe how/why I don't like magic healing that occurs during combat. Part of it is that it multiplies the survivability of strong hard to kill people (or wizardly hard-to-attack people), which adds incentive to something I don't like. And a lot of my point is that I just don't like that (and it's done in SO many other games that I'm especially sick of it, and TFT traditionally is a haven from that, and all the published adventures have surviving a series of serious combats without much/any healing as a major element of play).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
I think that the point Skarg was trying to make, was fast healing allows combat buffing. If the party is made of a high level guy who can deal out at lot of damage, and everyone has a fair bit of armor (so damage is being done slowly), then buffing the big guy with healing is a big deal.
Yes, and that it encourages stacking whatever buffs you can and then healing the person you've buffed (though you do probably really want the spell shield, or else he can be taken out with a thrown spell).

And I don't mind combat buffing anywhere near as much as I mind combat healing. Blur and Stone Flesh someone with spells - OK, at least you're using wizard ST, and we can try to avoid him or counter that - it's using combat magic that does something in combat. But having serious wounds vanish has been overdone in so many games, and having played traditional TFT where magic healing is a big deal and mostly limited, rare, expensive and/or not available, I have a great appreciation for what play is like when wounds can be lasting and you need to deal with that and not blink it away.

The conversation gets a bit messy though because as we covered a few pages ago, there are many different levels of magic healing possible, starting at original TFT's level of maybe sometimes a weak healing potion (category A), on up to serious wounds can all go away between fights (category D). I don't mind level A or B (magic can speed healing and heal minor wounds, but serious wounds still need some days to heal unless you have a lot of healing potion), but don't enjoy playing at level C (a whole badly wounded party can heal completely in a day or two using magic).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
The big guy does not necessarily have to have a lot of magic for this situation to arise. (And for that matter, if both sides had a big guy with equal magics, it could happen.)
Yes, I think it starts at about total armor 8 (1d+2 weapons won't do anything without a 2x or 3x result), and gets seriously worse with each additional point of armor. That's not so hard to get.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
However, such situations come up pretty rarely, in my experience.
It would come up a lot less if armor enchantment were capped at +2, and if Stone/Iron Flesh were impossible to make self-powering. (Our magic item breakdown system also did well.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
But fast healing brings up other questions. If I take 5 hits (so I'm stunned at -2 DX), and I get healed for 2, am I still stunned? We never needed this rule before.
Good question. I would say & hope not.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
Wizard will be wanted to drop a healing if someone is at permanent negatives.
Yes, and I actually wouldn't mind, if there were a healing spell that could heal someone for 1 or 2 points during combat, but then the wound was "treated" and couldn't be healed by magic or physicker again (I think that patch puts SJ's spell close enough to B for my comfort). I'd prefer it at least required touch, but wouldn't whine too much about it being Thrown. After all, you could always do this with Aid, just not lastingly (though that's also a reason why a new spell that can do this isn't needed).


Quote:
Originally Posted by JLV View Post
Yes, yes it is. Because I think players should be allowed to chose for themselves. More importantly, I pretty much guarantee that many people have already invented a healing spell or two of their own for the game, and telling those people "You're playing wrong," isn't exactly the most inclusive argument I've ever heard.
I don't want to tell people how to play. However adding a powerful category C healing spell to TFT is just as much telling TFT players who like the lack of magic healing that they're playing wrong. Of course anyone can house rule what they want. On the other hand, any published adventures will be greatly affected unless they're all written for single-combats with full healing allowed between by whatever method. All of the existing TFT adventures were written with a major element of play and balance being that there is limited or no healing adventure available between encounters. If you add fast healing to those, the balance will be off. If you balance adventures for trivial healing, they'll be really hard for people playing without healing. So if healing is included and meant to be optional, all adventure design/balance needs to take into account the major role that magic healing (or its absence) plays. I would say it also impacts world design, how GMs run adventures and game worlds, how people behave, what/who they take to go adventuring, economy, etc etc. Since TFT has a nice theme of things making sense and observing cause & effect, if magic healing is optional, there probably should be some stuff written in the new ITL about the differences.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Rice
...but once it's there, it's there and I think it will be widely used, which I think will be to the detriment of the Wizard character.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLV View Post
Why should you, or anyone else for that matter, care what anyone else does in their game? Why this need to "police" the issue so much? If you don't allow it in your game, I certainly don't plan to get all up in your face about your choice. After all, it's your game, isn't it? Why, then, this intense desire to force everyone to play your way?
I don't think Chris was doing any of that.

However, I agree with Chris that TFT's lack of a healing spell is an interesting and unique quality, and that playing without it gives players an interesting (and rare in RPGs) experience. Simply adding a healing spell would remove that experience for many new players, and I agree that seems a shame to me. Yes, players can of course play however they like, but the assumption of such a spell's existence or absence impacts the assumptions of many other aspects of play, and those will either mess with the existing sections, or those sections need to be adjusted or (hopefully) be written to mention how the existence or absence of a healing spell would affect those areas. (e.g. healing potion cost/effort/effectiveness, adventure balance, and other costs and practices and mentions of people needing to take time to heal or not, or what people's tactics and strategies and capture/kill policies would be like.)
Skarg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2018, 12:36 PM   #260
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: HEAL spell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
You may be right.
I wouldn't have any issues with making the spell either not castable in combat, or not useful in combat, nor with limiting total daily healing. For example:

Regeneration (T): accelerates the subject's healing. Lasts 1 hour per 3 ST the wizard uses to cast it. Heals the subject by 1 ST per hour. Cannot be stacked.

However, I don't think the spell as proposed would dramatically affect combat, it's mostly what you call category D even if it's castable in combat because you generally won't cast it in combat.
__________________
My GURPS site and Blog.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.