Lord of the Rings Elven Racial Template

[Gavynn]

Great to see this thread reserected. I have not dropped this project in the least, although going in sometimes slow. I was actually researching elven arms and armour when I refreshed the GURPS page and saw it jump to the top.

Why do all elves get Danger Sense?

Why? Here was my reasoning (and incidentally a preview of the greatly expanded section on elves of which the board has only seen the stats thus far).

Originally Posted by A Draft of Gavynn's Still Forthcoming GURPS LotR Sourcebook

“‘I do not think the wood feels evil, whatever tales may say[.]’”

- Legolas, The Two Towers

Sixth Sense: Perhaps it is nothing more than the natural result of their increased perception. Perhaps their perception is more than the sum of its parts, but either way, the inherent powers of the Elder Children tap some source to which the Younger Children are not attuned. The First Born have an usual gift for detecting situations that might be dangerous – or even thoughts that do not happen to “feel” right – a trait that might be called by some a sixth sense. They are also able to detect that which mortals might consider to be supernatural. Elves can sense the presence of power, evil, ancient tragedies, the subtle menace of the Shadow, and even the far more physical dangers of their enemies. Thus, elves have Danger Sense [15] (B.47). Their sixth sense guides their hands in battle and makes them the deadliest foes. Therefore, elves have the Combat Reflexes [15] (B.43) advantage. This sense extends into the subtle magic of Middle-earth as well. Simply by touching finely wrought items, elves can detect the faint rhythm of magical emanations might be present. Thus, all elves have Magery Level Zero [5] (B.66). Remember, however, items that were formed magically carry only the traces of their magical emanations and thus elves are at -5 to their roll to detect such as item (see F.22).

I do plan on consulting the MERP height and weight tables for the Elves and High Men. Tolkien intended for them to be tall, and so to be true to the source material they should be in the sourcebook too. I had not considered assigning strength based on that height though. I am not sure why. Thanks for the idea. I will look into it.

As to the stats of the Vanyar, they should have the Calaquendi lens applied (which I am not sure if I actually posted to this board, but is available in its present form on my blog here.). Vanyar stats are important for a number of reasons. First, I don't want to limit the sourcebook to any particular time or place. If you wanted to run a game right after the elve's awakening a Vanyar elf would be a completely valid character. It could be quiet an adventure on a trek though early Middle-earth trying to get to Valinor. In this case, they would not have the Calequendi lens (of course). As Vaevictis Asmadi stated in a game set in Aman one could play a Vanyar. Plus, in a game set in the time of the War of Wrath, a Vanyar elf would be a valid character. Tolkien tells us:

Originally Posted by The Silmarillion in "The Voyage of Earendil"

"But the host of the Valar prepared for battle; and beneath their white banners marched the Vanyar, the people of Ingwe, and those also of the Noldor who never departed from Valinor."

[Vaevictis Asmadi]

OK... my attempt to post my replies to the entire thread was too long to post! I hope it is not excessive to put it in 3 posts? Is it considered rude to reply this thoroughly? I don't want to hijack the conversation.


Please post the Calaquende lens? I personally suggest giving them bonuses (beyond other elves) to Health, Will, maybe 1 or 2 points to Strength, plus all the "in both worlds" advantages, and the lowest level of the Glowing (quirk level, appearance normal). There's a Pyramid article with Glowing written up as Ads and Disads, I don't know if they were incorporated into 4th Edition. I would give Calaquendi the lowest level, since it seems to be visible mainly in the dark. (Glorfindel seems to glow extra because he was reincarnated). Or it might be mostly visible only in the unseen world. Also, Calaquendi would have some knowledge about the Valar and Maiar that most folks don't get.

There's a lot of good stuff in here that you guys have come up with, even though I mostly post replies to what I disagree with. I've been trying to work out some of this stuff on my own, but my knowledge of Middle-Earth is not matched by equal knowledge of GURPS. It's really nice to see you guys' ideas.

Originally Posted by Gavynn

I had thought about some kind of talent for crafts in the Noldo template, but I was thinking that this might be better represented by high individual skills for those who had learned from Aulë the Smith.

I think it was a cultural, rather than racial thing, that they just tend to spend their centuries of experience acquiring huge skills in crafting. Not necessarily only those who learned directly from Aule, either.

Originally Posted by Gavynn

I was reading up on the way sense checks worked, and now I tend to agree. Boosting per effectively increases the acuteness of all of their senses simultaneously, then I can leave it to individual elves to increase their individual senses as he or she might see fit. I'll have to explain that to my players, though, as I am sure the first thing they will want to know is why elves don't have acute vision. So an increase in per and telescopic vision should cover that. With the acute vision and the per increase I was effectively doubling up, like I was doing with the will and the fearlessness earlier. You're right, point economy is not a particular concern of this template, just modeling the elves. I don't intend to allow elves as a PC race anyway. I think that elves having heightened sense of taste would fit well with the theme. I am thinking particularly in wines here. The elven palette can appreciate far more subtle variations in flavour than that of Men. I see that being a point in the story.

You have a good point here, doubling high Perception with Acute Vision is overkill. Similarly, doubling Fearless with high Will. The Telescopic vision is good though. What about an ability to see into the unseen for the Calaquendi? They would for example, be able to see the "true" form of ringwraiths, or see people who used the One Ring to be invisible. I wonder if in the unseen, they can see things about people that are not obvious in the physical plane.
I don't get any impression that the unseen world has tons of spirits running around in it. It would contain faded elves, and ghosts and lesser wraiths, and maybe give a bonus to detecting the presence of "unclad" Maiar. But I don't know of any spirits that are native to the unseen world. That seems more an animistic sort of thing. Anyway I don't see spirits being as common as people, until the Fifth Age or something when most of the elves are faded.

Originally Posted by Celjabba

-i wouldnt get elves any iq racial bonus. they have some great minds, but i don't remenber them being a genius race.

Yeah, the bonus they get from their long lives would be better modeled with Eidetic memory and tons of CP to sink into skills. I don't see them as racially mentally superior to humans.

-tolkien world is definitively a low 'mundane magic' world. is there a reason for the racial magery ?
perhaps rather a alchemy variant ?

I agree there. D&D it is not. The most impressive magic belonged to Gandalf anyway, and he was a Maia. I wouldn't consider them a playable race.
The elven "magic" seems to me to be a matter of alchemy, of creating "magical" objects, not of casting spells or lighting fires by magic. It is an extension of the Noldor's amazing skill in crafting. Same with dwarven magic, really.

Originally Posted by NineDaysDead

Why not Language Talent [10] (B.65)?

I agree, Noldor seem to have Language Talent. Although be careful here; Finrod's especially impressive talent was a specific psionic thing, probably unique to him. According to the War of the Jewels Finrod "'was renowned among the Eldar for this power which he had, because of the warmth of his heart and his desire to understand others; yet his power was no greater than that of the least of the Maiar.'"

I have a vague recollection of some First Age badass elf healing from a vicious wound overnight, that sounds like Regeneration: Regular [25]. If the fastest healing elf ever has Regeneration: Regular [25], then maybe Regeneration: Slow [10] might be right for the average elf; it’s 6 times faster than the average human, 1.5 times faster than the best human.

That was Beleg, I think. However, looking at the passages in Children of Hurin, it only says that he was wounded, not how badly. And only that "he remained perforce in Bar-en-Danwedh until his wounds were healed." but not how long that took.

I don't think they have Regeneration. They do heal more quickly than humans are capable of, but they can't regenerate body parts. I don't know where the relevant passage is written so I can only 'quote' from memory: "The Quendi healed rapidly from injuries that would kill mortals, but their bodies could not replace lost members, such as a hand hewn off."

[Vaevictis Asmadi]

OK... continuing with my replies.

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

I agree it's a zero point effect. It's the same 0 point effect that practically any character in a fantasy world where "souls" are real has: "when you die, your soul goes to an afterlife place". The fact that the afterlife location, for Tolkien elves, happens to be in the same physical world, isn't really that relevant.
...If I'm running a fantasy campaign, and one of the characters dies, but I decide that they were so cool that the gods decide to revive them, the character doesn't need Unkillable for that to happen - all it needs is GM fiat. The benefit of Unkillable is guaranteed, quick ressurection - neither of which Tolkien elves have. So, no Unkillable.

I agree 100%. When elves die, they go to the Halls of Mandos, where Mandos judges them to decide whether he will reincarnate them at all. If he decides to reincarnate them, even the virtuous still have to wait for at least a little while:

"Re-birth is not the only fate of the houseless fear. The Shadow upon Arda caused not only misfortune and injury to the body. It could corrupt the mind... Moreover, some fear in grief or weariness relinquished their bodies, even though these might have been healed or were indeed unhurt. Few of these latter desired to be re-born... some never returned. Of the others, the wrong-doers, many were held long in 'waiting', and some were not permitted to take up their lives again.
For there was, for all the fear of the Dead, a time of Waiting, in which, howsoever they had died, they were corrected, instructed, strengthened, or comforted, according to their deserts. ...
Those who were healed could be re-born, if they desired it: none are re-born or sent back into life unwilling. The others remained, by desire or command, fear unbodied..." ~ Morgoth's Ring, pp. 222-223

Fear are the spirits or souls of elves and men. Since reincarnation is neither guaranteed nor quick, I can't see giving them Unkillable.

Originally Posted by Gavynn

I can see something like that. My bottom line is that I don't think that it feels right to force an elf to age on a failed will roll, or something like that. If the elf wants to go on living then he or she does.

I agree with that, I don't see forcing them to will themselves not to age. Everything I've read tells me that they are just naturally unaging. Maybe they grow a beard after a really long time, but their appearance and health are unaffected. Those who were grey-haried, were born that way. The fading was more of them slowly losing physical strength and becoming ethereal, until they were entirely within the unseen world, like a wraith. Except, not unnatural abominations like a wraith, and able to become corporeal and visible at will. At that point they no longer require food or water, and are apparently even Immune to Biological Hazards. They can't even be killed once they are fully faded, because their body is too ethereal to physically damage. This is described... somewhere I forget where. Morgoth's Ring, I think. I'm too lazy to go get my book, but faded elves can still show their form, which exists eventually only in memory. How would we model fading, actually? It takes such a long time (thousands and thousands of years) that it probably wouldn't be any more than a Quirk or Feature. I wrote up templates for faded (and reincarnated) elves, should I post them? They're pathetically incomplete.
I can certainly see elves failing Will rolls against fading, though. The Calaquendi and Exiles in general seem to fade more slowly. But their first "aging" roll in that case would be at the age of, like, 8000 years. Isn't it said "and age diminishes their strength not, unless one grow weary of ten thousand years."

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

They definitely can: in the story of Eol and Maeglin, Eol tried to poison his son, but ened up poisoning his wife instead, and she died from that later.
Actually, I wouldn't give them immunity to enviromental syndromes, just a high resistance. Remember, during the crossing of the Grinding Ice, many of Fingolfin's Noldor died, so obviously cold is still a danger, even if not as dangerous to them as to humans.

Yep, vulnerable to poison, also hypothermia and other metabolic hazards. But not disease.

Originally Posted by Gavynn

I gave them increased temperature tolerance, although the exact level to which that needs to be given may still need to be worked out. So elves can operate in heat or cold, but could still freeze to death to be sure.

Aye. I think it is written somewhere that even on hard rocks or ice, they only wore very light shoes. Also, in the Tale of Tuor (I forget which version) it is said that those who survived the Helkaraxe had a greater tolerance for cold afterwards.
Those who died, well... I had the impression many of them drowned (Noldor apparently aren't famous for their swimming powess) or died of hypothermia after falling in the water. Or just plain starved/froze; it takes a lot of food and energy to keep warm in extreme cold.

Originally Posted by Agemegos

Let me tell you, the Názgûl were right to run from Glorfindel (in Tolkien's revised concept of him). This was an elf who had killed a balrog in hand to hand combat. He was killed in the process, it is true: but after a while he decided that being dead was a waste of time, resurrected himself, and walked back from the afterlife.

Um.. sorry to contradict you here but that isn't what happened. Glorfindel is indeed an uber supergrossity (as I think you said earlier) who killed a Balrog and was generally amazing and badass. But, no elf can reincarnate themselves. Tolkien briefly toyed with the idea, but he rejected it along with the notion that they are reborn as children. His final idea was that the Valar decide who they will allow to leave the Halls of Mandos, and construct for them a new body which looks exactly like their old one (presumably minus any injuries and scars).
Glorfindel returned to Middle-Earth on a Numenorean ship. The Eresseans visited Numenor often enough, and Tar-Minastir was making an expedition to Lindon at that time to help the Eldar against the newly-revealed Sauron. However, Glorfindel was a major exception, and he needed special permission from the Valar to do this. Their general rule was that no elf from Aman or Eressea could go to Middle-Earth after the War of Wrath, even if they had died and the rest of their family lived on the other side of the sea. Glorfindel was sent for the same reason as the Istari, to be an emissary of the Valar and a help to the beleaguered Elves and mortals fighting Sauron. I think Glorfindel and Luthien were probably the only two elves that ever returned to Earth after death (but I don't know how Luthien traveled back).

Originally Posted by Mercator

In the books, they never seem to have problems to hide because of the glow; whole caravans of Elves travelled through the forests of the Middle-Earth to the Grey Havens without anybody seeing or hearing them.

I Interpret the light of Aman as being too faint to see unless you know what to look for, and even the only if the Elf in question wants to be seen. In short, a poetic metaphor; unrealistic but very beautiful and inspiring. I'd wouldn't take it very literally.

I hadn't thought of it that way before, but it is a nice interpretation. Or Gavynn's idea that they glow more mainly when trying to be intimidating or inspiring, or when using their spiritual power. Another possibility is simply that it's too faint to see except close-up in the dark.

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

In any case, if we're using the Silmarillion as canon, Finrod doesn't have any descendants. Or, at least, none that he had before or during the Exile. Of course, he was re-embodied, so I suppose he could have married his Vanyar sweetheart, and had a kid or two

I certainly hope so. :)
I think Gildor is just a guy from the household of those who served the Finarfir in the feudal/medieval sense. He doesn't seem important enough IMHO to be a royal prince. I'd expect him to have a greater part in the War of the Ring.

Originally Posted by Gavynn

I am already usig True Faith to have them be able to turn spirits (those things unseen they have control over) so I think they should use intimidate to "turn" an orc. It feels more intuitive that way, to me at least.

I think it was mostly only Glorfindel who could do that, because he was Calaquendian and an amazingly uber scary warrior, plus he glowed in the dark and had other bonus stuff from being reincarnated. Tolkien wrote that because he sacrificed himself to save the refugees of Gondolin, even more than because he was reincarnated, he had greatly magnified spiritual power compared to other elves. Or maybe his face was recognizable as That Guy Who Kills Balrogs OMGrunaway!!
Maedhros was also scary and orcs ran away from him, "as one who returns from the dead." implying to me that it was mostly a reincarnation thing (and he was something of an exception).
Other than that, the Light of Aman could be a really low level of Turning in the Calaquende template, but I wouldn't make it much more than an Intimidation bonus against orcs and other monsters of darkness.

[Gavynn]

Thank you very much for your contributions Vaevictis Asmadi. Very interesting reads. For the moment, I'd like to comment on:

I don't get any impression that the unseen world has tons of spirits running around in it. It would contain faded elves, and ghosts and lesser wraiths, and maybe give a bonus to detecting the presence of "unclad" Maiar. But I don't know of any spirits that are native to the unseen world. That seems more an animistic sort of thing. Anyway I don't see spirits being as common as people, until the Fifth Age or something when most of the elves are faded.

Exactly how many spirits one sees in the unseen world appears to be left to conjecture. Faded elves - yes. Ghosts of Men - yes. But how common is it for the souls of Men to be lost going from life to the afterlife and end up wandering around Middle-earth for an indefinite amount of time? I don't know. I think unclad Maiar would be included. There are lots of references to "evil spirits" though, and that is one of the things that I am having a bit of trouble fully integrating. Where did these spirits come from? They could be Maiar, since Maiar appear to have greatly variable powers. But many seem to do the bidding of the Witch King of Angmar, and while is is powerful, no doubt, I am not sure that he should be given such power over Maiar (after all - his boss is one!)

Please post the Calaquende lens?

OK. I'll post my Calaquendi lens in exchange for your work on a faded elf lens. :)

Originally Posted by A Draft Copy of Gavynn's Still Forthcoming GURPS LotR Sourcebook

Calaquendi Lens

It costs 122 points to play an elf with the Calaquendi lens.

"...in Rivendell there still live some of [Sauron's] chief foes; the elven-wise, lords of the Eldar from beyond the furthest seas. They do not fear the Ringwraiths, for those who have dwelt in the Blessed Realm live at once in both worlds, and against both the seen and the Unseen they have great power."

- The Fellowship of the Ring

The Calaquendi lens may be taken by any Elf who has personally dwelt in the Blessed Realm. In any game set before the elves began the Great Journey, no Elf may take this lens. Should the GM need to stat the Vanyar Elves, they all should have this lens, assuming the game is set after the Great Journey. In a War of the Ring setting game, the Noldor Elves would be the most likely to have this lens. The GM and the players should keep in mind, however, that any Noldor Elf who came over from Valinor to wage war upon Morgoth would be well over 7,000 years old at the War of the Ring and thus likely to have a tremendous point total besides the proper Elven template cost and the cost of this lens. The children of Noldor Exiles (that is any Noldor Elf born after their flight from Valinor back to Middle-earth) are not eligible for this lens. It is appropriate for some of the Teleri to be Calaquendi, as some of them did leave the shores of Middle-earth with Oromë when most decided to stay behind and found the great Sindarian Kingdoms. Keep in mind, however, a large number of the Teleri who would be eligible to acquire this lens died in the First Kinslaying. Besides the flight of the Noldor (and the host from Valinor of Noldor and Vanyar elves that fought in the War of Wrath and then returned to Aman), no other mass migrations from Aman by the Elves are known. Thus, the GM and player would need to invent a suitable background should the GM allow a younger Noldor with this lens in Middle-earth, or one of the enlightened Teleri in the game. The Avari are never permitted to take this lens.

It should be noted that this template does not specify the length of time an elf must spend in Aman to acquire this lens. Thingol, king of the Silvan elves, was one of the ambassadors to Aman in the earliest years, and thus was not considered one of the Moriquendi. However, a GM may rule that he did not remain in Aman long enough to have acquired the full benefits.

Resolute of Mind and Body: By virtue of their enlightened status, the Calaquendi do not fear the mundane creature of Middle-earth or the agents of Shadow. Aman is full of creatures and beings that can make Middle-earth appear rather uninteresting. They tend not to display great emotion or surprise, but instead calm and calculating even in the face of great danger. Thus, the Calaquendi are exempt from all fright checks from "mundane" sources and are likewise never intimidated by any mundane source. Creatures with cosmic terror or intimidation, still cause the Elf to roll their check normally, however. All Calaquendi have the Unfazeable [15] (B.95) advantage.

Power Over the Unseen: The Calaquendi live at once in both the worlds of the physical and the non-physical. They have learned to live with this ability and to effectively ignore the Unseen realm when it is not of direct significance to them. The Elves who have dwelt in the Light of Aman see ghosts and spirits even when they have not chosen to reveal themselves in the material world, and thus have See Invisible (Spirits) [15]. The Unseen are also subject to the power and authority of the Calequendi. When the Elf reveals himself or herself in full, the power of Valinor radiated from their bodies, causing light to emanate from their skin and light to shine in their eyes. Their voices appear to resonate from the depths of time. During this time, the Unseen are repelled from the Elf as per the True Faith (Turning +65%) [25] (B.94, P.84). This ability applies to incorporeal undead and at the GM’s discretion the corporeal undead. It does not apply to greater undead, such as the Nazgul.

Spirits or other Unseen inhabiting people, locations, or objects are also able to be detected by the Calaquendi. They may be able to tell if some object or natural feature houses or is possessed by a spirit. Thus, the Calaquendi have Detect (Sprits) [20] (B.48), in order to locate spirits not otherwise visible to them.

The Calaquendi’s attachment to the realm of the non-physical also extends to being able to sense and communicate with spirits and even call them to them, perhaps to request aid. Therefore the Calaquendi have the Medium [10] (B.68, P.59). This in no way compels the Unseen to assist the Calaquendi or even provides a reaction bonus to spirit. However, by virtue of the Spirit Empathy [10] (B.88) the Calaquendi interact with spirits with greater ease. If the Calaquendi has great need to contact one of the Unseen, he or she may choose to use the Autotrance [1] perk.

The Most Blessed: Those who know the Elf has dwelt in the Blessed Realm holds the Elf I high Social Regard (+2) [10] (B.86). This does not apply to Dwarves.

"They passed slowly, and the hobbits could see the starlight glimmering in their hair and in their eyes. They bore no lights, yet as they walked a shimmer, like the light of the Moon above the rim of the hills before it rises, seemed to fall about their feet."

- The Fellowship of the Ring

The Moon Glow: Those Elves who have seen the Light of the Two Trees are forever changed, both mentally and physically. A radiation of otherworldly power can spring from their skin, and with that a glow like starlight from their pores. This light can even burn brightly in their eyes and glitter in their hair. This display is largely controllable so the Elf need never worry about his aura giving away his or her position in the night if that is of concern. Also, the physical glow itself largely undetectable in sunlight, but the non-physical effects of the emanations are no less potent. The Moon Glow manifests itself when the Elf utilizes its power of the Unseen as described above, but also, when a Calaquendi chooses to fully manifest himself or herself, he or she gains a supernatural +2 to Intimidate [6]. Additionally, when manifested thusly, Calaquendi have Charisma +2 [10] (B.41).

So that is all their abilities, but I have a few paragraphs further on optional abilities and skills that are only available to Calaquendi character, but I think that is more than a good preview of my drafts. I can't give it all away yet! And it rounds out the elf templates nicely in case someone would like to use them.

[Dienekes]

Originally Posted by Vaevictis Asmadi

Glorfindel returned to Middle-Earth on a Numenorean ship. The Eresseans visited Numenor often enough, and Tar-Minastir was making an expedition to Lindon at that time to help the Eldar against the newly-revealed Sauron. However, Glorfindel was a major exception, and he needed special permission from the Valar to do this. Their general rule was that no elf from Aman or Eressea could go to Middle-Earth after the War of Wrath, even if they had died and the rest of their family lived on the other side of the sea. Glorfindel was sent for the same reason as the Istari, to be an emissary of the Valar and a help to the beleaguered Elves and mortals fighting Sauron. I think Glorfindel and Luthien were probably the only two elves that ever returned to Earth after death (but I don't know how Luthien traveled back).

Is this in Morgoth's Ring? I haven't read the canon any deeper than Sil and Unfinished Tales, but I remember from my fascination with ICE's stuff in the 80's that they left it wide open whether FA Glorfindel was the same guy as TA Glorfindel. Morgoth's Ring was published after the ICE stuff, which would explain their not knowing it. At any rate, I'd like to read about it–Glorfindel was one of the characters I always wanted to know more about.

[Dienekes]

Originally Posted by Gavynn

Great to see this thread reserected. I have not dropped this project in the least, although going in sometimes slow.

I hope you'll keep posting what you're up to, even if the replies peter out. It's an exciting project.

You probably already know about these resources, but just in case: someone did a 200+ page free pdf sourcebook for making ME Rolemaster characters that goes way beyond MERP's resolution. Might be some ideaas to mine there, or at least something to spur thought. Michael Martinez's book of essays on ME, called Parma Endorian, is also a downloadable pdf and can be found in the downloads at www.merp.com, or googled elsewhere.

Good luck with it.

[Dienekes]

Thinking about the Noldor: would it be appropriate to have some game-system mechanic to represent their "doom"? The FA Vow to recover the Silmarils would be pretty straightforward, I guess, but how in GURPS would you represent the regret over and longing in the subtext of Galadriel's song ("What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a sea?") and in the implications of the defiance of the Valar, the Kinslaying at Alqualondë, etc. Seems too central to who they are as a race (in ME, anyway) to leave up to individual characterization.

Side-thought: the way Cate Blanchett's face lit up as she stepped onto the grey ship at the end of the movies captured perfectly for me the resolution of the despair of the Noldo. (I hope it was a deliberate choice...)

[Vaevictis Asmadi]

Originally Posted by Gavynn

I would start with the a modified Noldo template for the Vanyar, but they cannot be as great in lore and craft as the Noldo. What could be the Vanyar's shtick?

The lore and craft stuff was cultural though. Maybe the Vanyar's shtick was poetry?

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

I'd say that the affinity for nature was a general elven thing, which the High Elves later drifted from. Really, the difference between Sylvan/Sindarin elves and Avari should probably be a loss of the Grey Elves major singing and voice advantages.

Now I'm contradicting slightly my advocating removing the physical racial distinctions, but I think that the good singing skill was a trait of the Lindar in general. Which would apply to some but not all Avari. Thought probably the Sindar learned a thing or two from Melian. ;)

Actually, this doesn't seem to be particularly universal. The Grey Elves tended to like wandering about freely under the open sky.

I agree. I seem to remember reading somewhere that most elves dislike living underground. Thingol made it work because the Thousand Caves were so amazingly awesome, and roomy enough with tree-shaped pillars and living plants underground, that nobody minded. But regular caves I think would bother them. They seem to like sleeping under the stars. I think that the Nandor in Ossiriand wandered around with "no fixed abode" or something along those lines.

Originally Posted by Gavynn

Avari
Total Point Cost: 234

I'm not sure we can make a single template for Avari. That grouping includes many different cultures and ethnic groups. Linguistically, their languages differed as much from each other as from the Eldarin tongues, so I would expect their cultures were equally diverse.
On the other hand, you could change it to an Avari lens, sort of an anti-lens for the shared traits of the Eldar. One thing the Eldar have is a sort of Code of Honor: their culture forbid certain things in warfare such as using poison of any kind, torturing prisoners, or killing prisoners (even orcs) who asked for mercy. Of course some Eldar (Eol) violated this Code of Honor, but even nasty folk like Curufin stuck to it.

Mildly Xenophobic [-1]

Some Avari disliked mortals and avoided them, but some were evidently friendly, as they taught the Edain various things before they reached Beleriand. I would instead give them a Quirk: Distrusts Eldar because they tended to consider the Eldar as deserters who abandoned the true Elves.

Attribute Adjustments
+1 Strength [10]
+1 Dexterity [20]
+1 Intelligence [20]
+1 Health [10]

I'd prefer to keep the physical traits to differences between the Eldar, Calaquendian Eldar, Sindar, and other Elves separate from their Kindred distinctions. Racially I don't see why they would be physically different, except as a result of being Calaquendi or descended from Calaquendi. In other words, I think that Vanyar and Noldor should only get extra Attribute bonuses from the Calaquendi lens, or a separate lens Descended from Calaquendi. Beyond that, I see no reason to make Noldor, Sindar, and Vanyar biologically different. They differed mainly by culture, any superficial things like hair color.

Languages
Common Eldarin (Native/Fully Literate) [0]

The Vanyar speak Quenya.

"Evil" personal traits are disallowed [0]

I would reserve this for those who are released from Mandos and reincarnated. Nothing in the books suggests to me that Vanyar are morally perfect or immune to imperfection. We simply don't get to see much of them as individuals, because they aren't the focus.

Languages
Sindarin (Native/Fully Literate) [0]
Westron (Native/Fully Literate) [6]

Depending on what Age of the world and what region, they would also speak the Nandorin tongue. I suppose that would vary between individuals, though, but then so would their ability to use Sindarin or Westron. Remember in the Lord of the Rings, some of the elves of Lorien didn't speak Westron. And Nimloth, a Nando, refused to learn or use Sindarin.

All Elves

I would give all elves BIG racial bonuses to Dexterity and Health. And a bonus to Willpower.

Never Scars [1]

I don't agree with this one. They recover from injuries much more easily than humans, but there are references to elves (such as Gwindor) having scars.

Sanitized Metabolism [1]

What does this do again? I forget. (and I'm lazy) :)

Does not Sleep [20] (B.50)

I would change this to Less Sleep. Elves do sleep, there are references to them doing so in the Silmarillion and the Peoples of Middle-Earth. They need less than mortals, and don't have a psychological need for dreams because they have their Memory instead, but they do need to rest sometimes. On the other hand, with a combination of high Will and Health, they can probably force themselves to stay awake longer than they normally would and continue to function normally, as long as they "make it up" later.

Fearless +3 [6] (B.55)

I would instead give them the appropriate adjustments to Will. They can become frightened, or forced to do things by threat -- see Maeglin. I certainly would not give them Unfazeable, as was suggested earlier. They aren't crazy like Kender (the Dragonlance race that is incapable of feeling fear). I don't really see them as having any special bonuses against fear, other than their high Will. But I guess that is my interpretation.

Edict Memory [5] (B.51)

Is this Eidetic Memory? :) I agree with NineDaysDead that they ought to have Eidetic Memory.

OK, so I seem to have a lot of disagreements, but mostly I agree with a lot of your assessment. Language Talent, Light Walk (I'd never thought of that!), all good stuff. It is very interesting to see other's views on this stuff.

Distrust of Dwarves [-1]

As I said, I'm certain this is cultural, not racial, and is limited to the Eldar, and not even all of them.

3)I can't think of a single example of a Vanyar giving in to corruption, or even going along with Feanor.

How many Vanyarin characters were described in detail in the books? I seriously doubt that any person is exempted from moral imperfection solely by being born to a particular ethnic group. If you look at Tolkien's writing, even highly exalted people like Numenoreans include their evil members.

Also, there were a few Vanyar who joined the Exile, such as Elenwe wife of Turgon.


My opinion about writing: Many Nandor/Sylvans, especially in the earlier Ages, would be illiterate. Avari are probably mostly all illiterate, except in later ages as the "Dwarven" alphabet (really Sindarin Cirth) was gradually carried eastward, and maybe some Avari picked it up from them.

Originally Posted by Gavynn

Thank you very much for your contributions Vaevictis Asmadi. Very interesting reads.

Your'e welcome!

Exactly how many spirits one sees in the unseen world appears to be left to conjecture. Faded elves - yes. Ghosts of Men - yes. But how common is it for the souls of Men to be lost going from life to the afterlife and end up wandering around Middle-earth for an indefinite amount of time? I don't know. I think unclad Maiar would be included. There are lots of references to "evil spirits" though, and that is one of the things that I am having a bit of trouble fully integrating. Where did these spirits come from? They could be Maiar, since Maiar appear to have greatly variable powers. But many seem to do the bidding of the Witch King of Angmar, and while is is powerful, no doubt, I am not sure that he should be given such power over Maiar

I think that mortal ghosts are probably a fairly rare thing. But I generally think that the evil spirits of Angmar were ghosts, and people who were turned into wraiths. Remember that the Ringwraiths could turn people undead, and then they would be under Sauron's power. Maybe they did this to loyal servants as well, or used it to enslave people.
But also, there are elven ghosts:

"The fea is single, and in the last impregnable. It cannot be brought to Mandos. It is summoned; and the summons proceeds from just authority, and is imperative; yet it may be refused. Among [the Avari] refusal of the summons to Mandos and the halls of Waiting is, the Eldar say, frequent. It was less frequent, however, in ancient days, while Morgoth was in Arda, or his servant Sauron after him; for then the fea unbodied woudl flee in terror of the Shadow to any refuge -- unless it were already committed to the Darkness and passed into its dominion. In like manner even some of the Eldar who had become corrupted refused the summons, and then had little power to resist the counter-summons of Morgoth." ~ Morgoth's Ring

It is important to note that only really corrupted individuals would do this -- even Feanor accepted the summons, although the presence of Morgoth may have frightened him. I wouldn't allow PCs to do this, unless somebody was already playing an utterly corrupt and wicked elf. But these ghosts do linger, wandering "houseless in the world, unwilling to leave it and unable to inhabit it" and some of them like to trick living people into letting them possess them. Also, "Some were enslaved by he Dark Lord and do his work still, though he himself is gone. They will not speak truth or wisdom. To call on them is folly. To attempt to master them and to make them servants ... is wickedness. Such practices are of Morgoth; and the necromancers are of the host of Sauron his servant."

[Gavynn]

Originally Posted by Dienekes

You probably already know about these resources, but just in case: someone did a 200+ page free pdf sourcebook for making ME Rolemaster characters that goes way beyond MERP's resolution. Might be some ideaas to mine there, or at least something to spur thought. Michael Martinez's book of essays on ME, called Parma Endorian, is also a downloadable pdf and can be found in the downloads at www.merp.com, or googled elsewhere.

Holy cow! I had never downloaded the MERP?RM pdf. I will have to take some time to see what is in it. I have several of the second ed MERP books. I'll have to see what this contributes. You know, I had read the Martinez essays a while back ago when I was on the MERP site more frequently but had forgotten about it. It will be good to read over again.

I did start pulling together some notes on Elven Arms and Armour for the Equipment section of the sourcebook. I also intended to use the notes to assemble suitable miniatures to represent them. I just put my notes (and it is an incomplete essay, but hopefully worthwhile) up HERE if anyone is interested.

[Vaevictis Asmadi]

Originally Posted by Dienekes

Is this in Morgoth's Ring?

Nope, Glorfindel is in Peoples of Middle-Earth. All of the History of Middle-Earth were published after MERP, as far as I know. But they add such a huge amount of information beyond what the Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales contain.

OK. I'll post my Calaquendi lens in exchange for your work on a faded elf lens. :)

Agreed!

I like this a lot. I would prefer to add to their Will, Health, and Strength, as said in the Silmarillion that Calaquendi are super-tough, even by elvish standards. The power over the unseen I would reduce in power, and transfer some of it to the reincarnated elves, since I think Glorfindel seems to be the main source of this idea.

My only big gripe though, other than the lack of attribute bonuses, is Unfazeable. I would much prefer to give extra levels of Will to represent a greater command over both mind and body, rather than something specific to fear. Also, Unfazeable is a lack of emotion and unfailing politeness at all times. Does Feanor really seem like a constantly polite, unemotional guy? There are plenty of anecdotes in the Silmarillion of Calaquendi being emotional or rude: "Fingon wept" .. "Feanor laughed as one fey, and his wrath was unleashed" .. "then Angrod was exceedingly wroth" .. Feanor calls his brother and his followers "useless baggage" and Thingol calls Beren a thrall! Thingol was fairly wrathful at times, then he became quite sorrowful over Luthien's death until he seemed like an aged mortal. I just can't see unemotional people getting so worked up into a froth by Feanor's speech in Tirion, as the Noldor did. When Finarfin tried to calm them down, they shouted "Nay, let us be gone!" These are on the contrary frequently fierce and impulsive people, and some of them have a tragic hero's propensity to over-displays of emotion. I wouldn't want to take that away from them.

If Elrond and Galadriel seem wise and contemplative and always polite, I think it is more because of their age and, in Elrond's case, a basic facet of personality. But I wouldn't give them Unfazeable, either. Unfazeable to me, makes somebody a characture.


You are right of course Gavynn, that it should be possible to include Vanyar and even reincarnated elves in a game. So here's my unfinished attempt. I gave faded elves ST and HT at 0, because they can't be physically harmed but are incorporeal and I think the implication is that as they become ethereal, they proportionately lose their physical strength over the physical world until they have virtually no power over the physical plane at all.

Faded Elf (as a lens that you add to the racial template)
HT 0
ST 0
Doesn’t Eat or Drink
Immunity to Metabolic Hazards
Immunity to Poison
Insubstantiality (usually on)
Invisibility (usually on)
Sterile
Maybe some variation of Unkillable, since they literally can't be killed. Maybe they even have Doesn't Breathe. The Lingerers, as Tolkien calls them, still have bodies in a way, but the body is "consumed" by the "fire of the spirit" until it exists only as a memory. An elf can reveal themselves to mortals if they wish "through [the mortal's] mind working outwardly, maybe". They are generally invisible and insubstantial, though, so they are easily confused with ghosts. But unlike ghosts they can't possess people.

Manu (Reincarnated Elf) (as a lens you add to the racial template)
HT +2 or 3
Will +?
Glowing 2 (appearance normal) (this is an Advantage described in a Pyramid article)
Social Regard ()
Taboo Traits: "evil" personality traits.
plus part of the Control Over the Unseen thing you gave to Calaquendi.

I don't really know how to put into GURPS all of the traits of them. Manur are elves who were either judged completely worthy, or who repented all of their sins and learned from all their mistakes, and were let out of Mandos. It is difficult to judge solely from Glorfindel because he is exceptional even for a manu, but Morgoth's Rin and Peoples of Middle-Earth have some info. A manu is one who has overcome their worst limitations that they had in their earlier life, given up all malice toward fellow elves and humans, faced death, been cleansed of the influence of the Shadow on their spirits and minds, been healed of any psychological trauma, increased in wisdom and patience, been taught by the Maiar of Mandos to learn from the mistakes and sorrows of their earlier life, and finally were blessed by Manwe and Varda before getting a new body. They are also "more patient of hurts" and have higher HT than even other Calaquendi, and they have even greater control over their bodies, minds, and spirits (increased Will and maybe a point of extra DX) In terms of HT, DX, and Will, this is only an exaggeration of the self-control and mastery of the body that all elves have, and which mortals lack. Reincarnation, or the waiting which precedes it, also seems to increase their spiritual efficacy.


Finally, concerning all elves I forgot to add: I think they all get Voice, as it is said that elves' voices are always sweet and light and beautiful. And when I said they should have Less Sleep instead of Doesn't Sleep, I should have added that they also would have Light Sleeper. Finally, although I don't have the text that says whether all elves are ambidextrous or only some of them, I do know that elves in general can write either right-handed or left-handed whenever they please, which seems to be a Perk.
Tolkien also described that elves in general have higher resistance to pain than mortals, and greater command over their bodies. This is not only DX but also Will to overcome hunger, thirst, addiction, tiredness, pain, lust, sex drive, discomfort, and various "urges" of the body that mortals so easily give in to.