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Old 02-16-2020, 10:08 AM   #11
Fnordianslip
 
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Default Re: What's a reasonable price for Weapon Master (two unrelated weapons)?

I'd probably just call it a perk for my games if both weapons are of the same type. If a player is only using one weapon at a time, it's basically just flavor for them to switch up weapons. Though I'd probably call it five points it one was a missile weapon and the other a hand to hand weapon since those have different types of utility. For a solo game in particular it seems reasonable to just call it a perk.
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Old 02-16-2020, 11:53 AM   #12
Anthony
 
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Default Re: What's a reasonable price for Weapon Master (two unrelated weapons)?

Bastard sword and composite bow are not two weapons that are normally used together), but a 'class of weapons' does not have to be weapons of the same type, it can just be weapons of the same theme (e.g. the Knightly Weapons list). However, if you can't come up with a coherent theme, I'd just say buy the 45 point version.
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Old 02-16-2020, 12:14 PM   #13
Donny Brook
 
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Default Re: What's a reasonable price for Weapon Master (two unrelated weapons)?

Two is a small group.
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Old 02-17-2020, 02:52 AM   #14
Aldric
 
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Default Re: What's a reasonable price for Weapon Master (two unrelated weapons)?

I'd say 30 points. Throw in a small shield or an offhand if it seems too expensive.
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Old 02-17-2020, 03:34 AM   #15
Celjabba
 
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Default Re: What's a reasonable price for Weapon Master (two unrelated weapons)?

RAW price :

WM 1 weapon: [20]
WM 1 weapon: [4] AA of first
Extra-ready(-80% only to switch between those 2 AA) [5]

Total [29]

I would go with [25] myself but [30] can be justified.
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Old 02-17-2020, 04:49 AM   #16
aesir23
 
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Default Re: What's a reasonable price for Weapon Master (two unrelated weapons)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celjabba View Post
RAW price :

WM 1 weapon: [20]
WM 1 weapon: [4] AA of first
Extra-ready(-80% only to switch between those 2 AA) [5]

Total [29]

I would go with [25] myself but [30] can be justified.
Why would Extra-Ready be necessary? If they're already weapons that aren't used together, he'll be taking a ready maneuver anyway.
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Old 02-17-2020, 04:55 AM   #17
Icelander
 
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Default Re: What's a reasonable price for Weapon Master (two unrelated weapons)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Bastard sword and composite bow are not two weapons that are normally used together), but a 'class of weapons' does not have to be weapons of the same type, it can just be weapons of the same theme (e.g. the Knightly Weapons list). However, if you can't come up with a coherent theme, I'd just say buy the 45 point version.
Note that 'coherent theme' in the real world can be quite disparate weapons. For example; longbow, long knife and maul.
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Old 02-17-2020, 05:54 AM   #18
Celjabba
 
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Default Re: What's a reasonable price for Weapon Master (two unrelated weapons)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aesir23 View Post
Why would Extra-Ready be necessary? If they're already weapons that aren't used together, he'll be taking a ready maneuver anyway.
I may be wrong, but ... does the ready maneuver to switch weapons also count to switch the active AA ?
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Old 02-17-2020, 07:39 AM   #19
Plane
 
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Default Re: What's a reasonable price for Weapon Master (two unrelated weapons)?

B61 doesn't seem to charge a Ready maneuver to switch between "Alternative Attacks". All I can see is "cannot use them simultaneously, even if you are capable of multiple attacks".

Would P11's "To change settings requires a Ready maneuver." retroactively apply to Alternative Attacks then, since it's a form of Alternative Abilities?

It feels right to do that. After all: a Ready maneuver would explain WHY you couldn't use them simultaneously.

There wasn't even a way to use them simultaneously in Basic Set anyway that I can see, since the "Dual" enhancement wasn't added until powers.

You could do a Rapid Strike or AOA:Double using Innate Attack, but I'm pretty sure that can be interpreted as CONSECUTIVE (not simultaneous) attacks within a single second, since there's no actual requirement to use different attacks with those two options.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aesir23 View Post
Why would Extra-Ready be necessary? If they're already weapons that aren't used together, he'll be taking a ready maneuver anyway.
One thing we should keep in mind is that "reduced time +20%" on a 20-point ability is only 5 points...

Since "-80% only to switch between those 2 AA" seems like a custom-designed limitation (in turn taken on an advantage which isn't in the basic set) it could be more canonical to take the "Reduced Time" enhancement on both versions of Weapon Master, representing the idea that you can switch between them using a Free Action (at start of your turn) rather than needing a Ready maneuver.

The only ends up being 1 point more (since the 2nd ability is 1/5 cost) so you're paying 25+5 = 30 points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celjabba View Post
I may be wrong, but ... does the ready maneuver to switch weapons also count to switch the active AA ?
Taking "reduced time" on weapon master would definitely not cover the ready maneuver you would need to stow your active weapon (Quick-Sheathe perk helps here) or the ready maneuver you would need to draw your non-active weapon (Quick-Draw perk helps here) but we have existing advantages to cover those problems.

A bowman has to draw both his bow AND his arrows so I'm not sure if they'd make TWO quick-draw rolls after rolling Quick-Sheathe to stow their sword?

Simply DROPPING a weapon is also an option, of course. That's free and doesn't take a roll, but it might make retrieving it later more difficult.
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Old 02-17-2020, 09:09 AM   #20
Celjabba
 
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Default Re: What's a reasonable price for Weapon Master (two unrelated weapons)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
B61 doesn't seem to charge a Ready maneuver to switch between "Alternative Attacks". All I can see is "cannot use them simultaneously, even if you are capable of multiple attacks".
Yes, you don't need a ready to change between alternate attacks.
But Weapon Master is not an attack, and you need a ready maneuver to switch between alternate abilities (power p11)

And my question (to Aesir23) was
"do you think the ready maneuver (or fast drawn, or whatever else) to switch between weapon would cover the WM switch."
since he asked
"Why would Extra-Ready be necessary ?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post

Since "-80% only to switch between those 2 AA" seems like a custom-designed limitation (in turn taken on an advantage which isn't in the basic set) it could be more canonical to take the "Reduced Time" enhancement on both versions of Weapon Master, representing the idea that you can switch between them using a Free Action (at start of your turn) rather than needing a Ready maneuver.
Yes, it is a custom limitation

Extra-ready was a forum advantage (http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...74&postcount=9) but a variant Extra Attack (Readying only, +0%) [25], was recently made official (in Monster Hunter power-up I).
The limitation is custom, but in line with similar published one, I believe.
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