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Old 02-14-2020, 12:38 AM   #31
dataweaver
 
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Default Re: Modular attributes?

Yeah; reframing it as a +25% enhancement to Elastic Skin should be okay. My point about it getting too cheap is that in the build I was describing, if any of the Limitations was worth a mere -5% more, you'd got the -80% cap and the modified Morph would cost exactly the same as Elastic Skin — which would be too cheap since it does everything Elastic Skin does and then some.
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Old 02-14-2020, 04:43 AM   #32
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Default Re: Modular attributes?

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
I watch modifiers on modular abilities like a hawk: its one of the advantages that can be broken that way. I'm generally opposed to time-based restrictions on any modular abilities other than cosmic. The amount of time required is baked into the cost of the modular ability already, in the cost per point. I'm also wary of limitations that apply only to the switching around of modular abilities. That's applying the advantage, and there are myriad ways to actually USE it.
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Modular Ability is a very flexible ability (that's the point of the ability) and those need to be watched very carefully to be balanced. It's the same with flexible systems like RMP or Incantation Magic - the GM has to be ready to say no and, if necessary, whack the offending player on the head.
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Old 02-14-2020, 02:23 PM   #33
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Default Re: Modular attributes?

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Originally Posted by dataweaver View Post
Revising my last suggestion a bit:

Morph (cosmetic changes follow the rules and restrictions of Elastic Skin, -50%; trait changes are limited to a 20-point shift in attributes, -20%; minimum duration of 5 hours, -5%) [25]

Frankly, the main difficulty I'm running into here is in keeping it from becoming too cheap: the trait-shifting restriction could easily be worth far more than -20% (I could easily see it being worth -40%, -50%, or even -80%). The alternate takes on how to keep the attribute shifts from taking place more often than once every 5 hours are really with more than -5%. And even if you were to go with my initial suggestion of Mass Conservation and Retains Shape, that would only reduce the net discount by -10% compared to what I suggest here.
I think the trick to it being too cheap is that Morph requires you to shift to a specific, pre-existing template. To let you pick and mix and mdatch attributes as I want, that would require improvised forms, which someone mentioned costs +100%?

So say it takes an extended but non-strenuous effort to use- takes 8 hours and during that time you can only recover half as much FP for instance, and it has the effects as described, what would it cost someone to increase the range of the pool above 20 points as they advance?

Last edited by Dichotomy; 02-14-2020 at 02:28 PM.
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Old 02-14-2020, 03:55 PM   #34
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Default Re: Modular attributes?

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Originally Posted by Dichotomy View Post
I think the trick to it being too cheap is that Morph requires you to shift to a specific, pre-existing template. To let you pick and mix and mdatch attributes as I want, that would require improvised forms, which someone mentioned costs +100%?

So say it takes an extended but non-strenuous effort to use- takes 8 hours and during that time you can only recover half as much FP for instance, and it has the effects as described, what would it cost someone to increase the range of the pool above 20 points as they advance?
Because it's specifically attributes and not other traits, I think it's easy enough to say that there is some template that happens to share those attribute changes. Yeah, the 100% improvement is the written cost, but that enhancement is severely weakened in this situation that maybe its price also drops to 20% (1/5th).

For increasing the pool, I think you'd just increase the amount of points in attributes. 20 is a low amount, so that could be just for roleplaying purposes it starts low and slowly (but much faster than point gain) goes to the amount in attributes.
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Old 02-15-2020, 11:38 AM   #35
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Default Re: Modular attributes?

Okay, so after all of the discussion, I have tried to describe the effect I'm looking for in a new ability for ease of reading, rather than calling it morph and listing all of the limitation math:

Quote:
Mutable form (The goblin may take 8 hours during which no strenuous mental or physical activity can be performed and fatigue can only be recovered at half rate to redistribute up to 20cp worth of attributes and/or secondary characteristics into other attributes/secondary characteristics. Cosmetic changes follow the rules and restrictions of elastic skin.) [20]

Special note: additional limitations and enhancements may not be applied to mutable form, except the following special enhancement which can be taken any number of times: More Mutable, increase the maximum number of cp that can be redistributed by 5. [5]
Please let me know if y'all think I'm crazy for considering allowing such a thing at such a price into my game.

The lore behind the ability that I'm looking to support is that they are highly adaptable as a species and VERY varied (all the way from kobolds to bugbears) but that changing, especially changing a LOT isn't something they do very often because it's a hassle.

Last edited by Dichotomy; 02-15-2020 at 11:42 AM.
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Old 02-15-2020, 11:42 AM   #36
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Default Re: Modular attributes?

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Originally Posted by Dichotomy View Post
Okay, so after all of the discussion, I have tried to describe the effect I'm looking for in a new ability for ease of reading, rather than calling it morph and listing all of the limitation math:



Please let me know if y'all think I'm crazy for considering allowing such a thing at such a price into my game.

The lore behind the ability that I'm looking to support is that they are highly adaptable as a species and VERY varied (all the way from kobolds to bugbears) but that changing, especially changing a LOT isn't something they do very often because it's a hassle.
I think it's too cheap. At least two or three times that.
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Old 02-15-2020, 01:11 PM   #37
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Default Re: Modular attributes?

I disagree. You can only redistribute 20 points with this, and it requires you to pretty much take yourself out of action for the equivalent of a full work day to do so. I don't know that I'd go as cheap as 20 points (it's still more advantageous than Elastic Skin, which it incorporates); but I'd definitely go much closer to 20 than to 40 or 60.
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Old 02-15-2020, 01:38 PM   #38
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Default Re: Modular attributes?

Redistribution of 20 CP would cost a minimum of 40 CP for a severely limited Modular Ability (Cosmic Powers), and it would need to be more limited than the above write up. Costs FP, 10 FP, Preparation Required (8 hours), and Trait-Limited, Attributes Only would be sufficient. In addition, you would also need Elastic Skin.
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Old 02-15-2020, 01:50 PM   #39
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Default Re: Modular attributes?

The implicit build for the trait that Dichotomy is considering isn't based off of Modular Abilities; it's based off of Morph.
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Old 02-15-2020, 04:03 PM   #40
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Default Re: Modular attributes?

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Please let me know if y'all think I'm crazy for considering allowing such a thing at such a price into my game.
OK. I think you're crazy. You're thinking of an advantage that gives you flexible ability levels at a rate of 20 CP of flexibile abilities at the same cost as 20 CP of normal abilities.

This is essentially an enhancement on ability levels, and I'd rate it at least +100%. So it should cost 40 CP. IMNSHO.
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