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Old 07-04-2019, 03:13 AM   #1
Tywyll
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Default Increasing the Cost of Purchasing Spells

So, I like that ITL attempted to provide a non-adventuring use of character's time in the job system.

However, I don't think a lot of time or research was put into the economic system (which is no surprise, very few games bother). This creates a weird result of high level wizard spells being surprisingly affordable. Lose a limb? Regeneration only costs around $40 to cast!

Is there a good way to increase the cost of buying spells that doesn't make things ridiculous? Because if casting spells for townsfolk is so profitable, adventuring is not necessary. So what is a good balance for these sorts of things?
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Old 07-04-2019, 09:09 AM   #2
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Increasing the Cost of Purchasing Spells

The rates might be somewhat off (I would probably have guild rates tend to be higher for higher-IQ spell services, and high-IQ wizard services tend not to be commonly available to just anyone), and a Guild or wizard could choose to jack up their prices, but I think the core concept of charging based on how much it puts out what wizard is sound enough.

I think Regeneration is a special case that deserves different attention. That is, I think the core issue there, at least for considerations I care about, is that Regeneration is trivially easy to cast, but has massive effects on the subject's life, as well as the seriousness of limb loss (and if using optional rules, of combat). That is, this would be fixed if casting Regeneration itself involved some costs, difficulties, inconveniences and/or risks or uncertainties that would make sense a wizard would charge for. But as written it doesn't - it's just fatigue which can be provided even by IQ 9 non-wizard assistants with the Aid spell.

The Regeneration spell itself mentions "There might be a potion but it would be very costly"... well but then it'd be foolish to use it if the Regeneration spell were available. I'd tend to want such a spell to be on par with such a potion. Revival costs $65,000 and requires other non-faulty potions, making it rather challenging to cast or to buy. Not to mention you need to manage to get the potion (or a wizard with the spell) to the subject within an hour of death.
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Old 07-04-2019, 01:32 PM   #3
MikMod
 
Join Date: May 2019
Default Re: Increasing the Cost of Purchasing Spells

This is basic economics. The list price of a wizards time is the absolute minimum value they would ever charge.

Prices are set by two factors, the 'cost' of manufacturing - which is pretty low for Regeneration, and what people are prepared to pay for your product.

A new arm is practically priceless, and I'm fairly sure wizards will have worked out that people will spend way more than $40 on it! I'm guessing they could raise the price to $20-30,000 or so and still not be terribly short of customers. That's if they're even interested in that kind of work, coz if they're not that will push the price even higher!

This wouldn't be the case if asking a wizard to cast blur on you for a minute or two. But then, again, if the wizard has something better to do (hint: they do) then again you have to pay them for the irritation cost.

Glamour might be another spell which mages could easily use to rake in the silver, especially if they're doing it gradually - like a scorcerous plastic surgeon.

BTW, I seriously think most wizards would be near the richest people and getting VERY well paid for casting the occasional spell. Adventuring really isn't going to be a wizards first idea of fun.
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Old 07-05-2019, 01:14 AM   #4
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Increasing the Cost of Purchasing Spells

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Originally Posted by MikMod View Post
A new arm is practically priceless, and I'm fairly sure wizards will have worked out that people will spend way more than $40 on it! I'm guessing they could raise the price to $20-30,000 or so and still not be terribly short of customers. That's if they're even interested in that kind of work, coz if they're not that will push the price even higher!
In a free(-ish) market, supply and demand would drive the prices down. Wizards would undercut each other to get business, especially if there are a lot of people in need of regeneration -- the more in need (and the poorer they are), the more opportunities for wizards to undercut each other to use this risk-free spell. Market forces should drive the price in line with every other 30 ST spell.

The Wizards' Guild might like to force the price high but that would require the guild to police the use of the spell (which would be costly and eat into their dues).
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Old 07-05-2019, 05:12 AM   #5
Tywyll
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Default Re: Increasing the Cost of Purchasing Spells

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Originally Posted by zot View Post
In a free(-ish) market, supply and demand would drive the prices down. Wizards would undercut each other to get business, especially if there are a lot of people in need of regeneration -- the more in need (and the poorer they are), the more opportunities for wizards to undercut each other to use this risk-free spell. Market forces should drive the price in line with every other 30 ST spell.

The Wizards' Guild might like to force the price high but that would require the guild to police the use of the spell (which would be costly and eat into their dues).
Well, sometimes it would work that way. Assuming that it does though, how many IQ 20 wizards are there to compete with? And if it were the case, shouldn't they make more per week on the job chart than like $50 more than the next lower category?

I think SJ tried to balance what a PC could earn by not adventuring with what the NPCs make. Which leaves it being easy to play, but ridiculous in application. I mean, a town wizard just needs IQX...they still make the same money a week if they have all combat spells or all helpful moneymaking spells. It just doesn't make a lot of sense.
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Old 07-05-2019, 07:28 AM   #6
zot
 
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Default Re: Increasing the Cost of Purchasing Spells

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Originally Posted by Tywyll View Post
Well, sometimes it would work that way. Assuming that it does though, how many IQ 20 wizards are there to compete with? And if it were the case, shouldn't they make more per week on the job chart than like $50 more than the next lower category?

I think SJ tried to balance what a PC could earn by not adventuring with what the NPCs make. Which leaves it being easy to play, but ridiculous in application. I mean, a town wizard just needs IQX...they still make the same money a week if they have all combat spells or all helpful moneymaking spells. It just doesn't make a lot of sense.
Regeneration is only an IQ 15 spell so it should be fairly easy to find a wizard (even a 32-point wizard) who can cast it and given it would be very important for small villages where injury from accidents could have grave consequences for the local economy, it seems like it would be very commonly known.
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Old 07-05-2019, 09:11 AM   #7
xane
 
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Default Re: Increasing the Cost of Purchasing Spells

I think the rule is that regeneration spells should not cost and arm and a leg.
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Old 07-05-2019, 10:09 AM   #8
MikMod
 
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I think the rule is that regeneration spells should not cost and arm and a leg.
😂

.........
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Old 07-06-2019, 05:35 PM   #9
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Increasing the Cost of Purchasing Spells

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Originally Posted by xane View Post
I think the rule is that regeneration spells should not cost and arm and a leg.
One of the versions that occurred to me to help make the spell more interesting was to have one of the spell components be an "fresh" severed arm... the closer to the desired arm (in terms of race, ST, undamaged, etc), the better, to reduce the risks of bad results on the Unfortunate Regeneration Spell Results Table.

Which would also tend to justify some regulations and/or legal/moral investigations into the source of such spell components...

Another idea is to require the casting wizard to tend to the patient throughout the week of bed rest, which would be an inconvenience to the wizard and require hiring them (and maybe some nurses too) for the week.
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Old 07-07-2019, 05:04 AM   #10
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Increasing the Cost of Purchasing Spells

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Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
One of the versions that occurred to me to help make the spell more interesting was to have one of the spell components be an "fresh" severed arm... the closer to the desired arm (in terms of race, ST, undamaged, etc), the better, to reduce the risks of bad results on the Unfortunate Regeneration Spell Results Table.

Which would also tend to justify some regulations and/or legal/moral investigations into the source of such spell components...

Another idea is to require the casting wizard to tend to the patient throughout the week of bed rest, which would be an inconvenience to the wizard and require hiring them (and maybe some nurses too) for the week.
I like the latter option if regeneration is a normal spell because almost no spells require material components.

What about requiring both material components and tending? This would make Regeneration more like making a magic item, perhaps taking weeks to cast and several wizards, a little more like when Frodo recovered in Rivendell...
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