Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-16-2014, 11:51 AM   #1
dfinlay
 
dfinlay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Default Mass Combat and Tech Level

In the mass combat rules, the troop strength of most things (short of artilllery) doesn't increase with TL. I assume this is because TS is relative and everyone is generally at the same TL.

However, I am running a campaign where one army is one TL above their foes. This would have all sorts of minor effects on armour and weapons, for example. I ruled that as meaning their equipment was considered good, but the description for good explicitly says that it is relative to their TL. I was wondering if there was a better (perhaps RAW) way of dealing with a TL advantage.

For reference, the TLs are 3 and 4. I realize that the TL4 army can also get firearms (musketeers and cavalry pistols), but I'm more talking about the other units (which still comprise the bulk of the army).
dfinlay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2014, 12:11 PM   #2
Turhan's Bey Company
Aluminated
 
Turhan's Bey Company's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: East of the moon, west of the stars, close to buses and shopping
Default Re: Mass Combat and Tech Level

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfinlay View Post
In the mass combat rules, the troop strength of most things (short of artilllery) doesn't increase with TL. I assume this is because TS is relative and everyone is generally at the same TL.
I don't think that's the case. Rather, I believe the assumption is that different troop types are going to be broadly comparable between TLs. For example, a guy with a spear and a heavy quilted or leather coat (that is, Medium Infantry) is going to be pretty much equally effective whether he's a member of an ancient Greek army, a Medieval French one, or a Renaissance Italian one. Instead of making the same kinds of troops more effective, Mass Combat introduces new troop types at higher TLs.

The other way TL makes a difference is a bit out of scope for Mass Combat itself, but realistically, in addition to having access to better troop types, a higher TL society of comparable size will be a bit wealthier, which allows it to raise more troops and/or troops with superior equipment. That, though, is a campaign issue.
__________________
I've been making pointlessly shiny things, and I've got some gaming-related stuff as well as 3d printing designs.

Buy my Warehouse 23 stuff, dammit!
Turhan's Bey Company is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2014, 01:00 PM   #3
dfinlay
 
dfinlay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Default Re: Mass Combat and Tech Level

Wouldn't higher TL troops have better access to medical treatmens, meaning they'd be healthier when the fight started, better metalurgical techniques meaning that their armour would be lighter for its DR and more advanced weaponry? There are several armours and weapons that appear at TL4 in Low-Tech. (ex: Plate is now available, presumably improving heavy cavalry, TL4 crossbows do more damage, cavalry sabers are now a thing, etc.) Additionally, wouldn't TL3 weapons and armour be cheaper and thus more widespread at TL4?
dfinlay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2014, 01:17 PM   #4
Turhan's Bey Company
Aluminated
 
Turhan's Bey Company's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: East of the moon, west of the stars, close to buses and shopping
Default Re: Mass Combat and Tech Level

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfinlay View Post
Wouldn't higher TL troops have better access to medical treatmens, meaning they'd be healthier when the fight started, better metalurgical techniques meaning that their armour would be lighter for its DR and more advanced weaponry? There are several armours and weapons that appear at TL4 in Low-Tech. (ex: Plate is now available, presumably improving heavy cavalry, TL4 crossbows do more damage, cavalry sabers are now a thing, etc.) Additionally, wouldn't TL3 weapons and armour be cheaper and thus more widespread at TL4?
That would give things a pleasing symmetry, but I'm leaning towards no. A number of those improvements would seem incremental and below the resolution of the coarse-grained TS system. And, at any rate, this is largely what I was on about when I was talking about higher TL societies being richer. In GURPS, costs of items are fixed (usually; rules for more sophisticated devices at higher TLs have exceptions) and incomes increase with TL. That's problematic in some ways, but that's how the game works. Viewed from that point of view, superior equipment is already cheaper (because it costs less proportionate to the amount of money one might expect to have) and can therefore be more widespread. But, as I say, that's a campaign issue, not one resolved within the mass combat rules themselves. If you want to reflect the superiority of a TL4 army, give them a bigger budget.
__________________
I've been making pointlessly shiny things, and I've got some gaming-related stuff as well as 3d printing designs.

Buy my Warehouse 23 stuff, dammit!
Turhan's Bey Company is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2014, 02:29 PM   #5
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Mass Combat and Tech Level

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfinlay View Post
In the mass combat rules, the troop strength of most things (short of artilllery) doesn't increase with TL.
Ah, you're looking at low-tech (TL 0-5); all TL 6+ units scale with TL. I believe the assumption is that higher TL results in different types of troops. It also results in generally higher wealth, allowing better quality troops.

Realistically, melee weapons didn't change all that much over TL 2-4, but armor tech improved significantly, so there should be a bump. The TS seems remarkably flat, though -- the only difference between TL 2 bowmen and TL 4 musketeers are that the musketeers are 25% cheaper.
__________________
My GURPS site and Blog.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2014, 03:44 PM   #6
RyanW
 
RyanW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southeast NC
Default Re: Mass Combat and Tech Level

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Realistically, melee weapons didn't change all that much over TL 2-4, but armor tech improved significantly, so there should be a bump.
Maybe, but I don't think TL 2 Seleucid cataphracts would be a pushover for a similarly sized force of TL 4 French gendarmes, or any of several other match ups. If there is a bump, it would have to be a small one.
__________________
RyanW
-. . .-- / - . .-.. . --. .-. .- .--. .... / .-- .... --- / -.. .. ... ..--..
RyanW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2014, 04:48 PM   #7
Crzyraccoon
 
Crzyraccoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Default Re: Mass Combat and Tech Level

I had a post here before about how to have a good fight with a TL3 fantasy elite army fighting a TL11 inexperienced army in despression using Mass combat. :P

Even tho your event is only 1 tech level difference while mines is EIGHT, the main advantage the TL4 army will have is muskets and cannons due to that cannons can beast castles.
__________________
I highly unrecommend choosing the following disadvantages;

No Sense of Humor [-10]
Crzyraccoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2014, 05:36 PM   #8
dfinlay
 
dfinlay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Default Re: Mass Combat and Tech Level

Thanks everyone. I guess I'll just give them a bit higher budget per population than the other army and use that to buy higher quality equipment on some (but not all) of their troops. This seems like a reasonable solution.
dfinlay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2014, 07:50 PM   #9
Langy
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: CA
Default Re: Mass Combat and Tech Level

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfinlay View Post
In the mass combat rules, the troop strength of most things (short of artilllery) doesn't increase with TL. I assume this is because TS is relative and everyone is generally at the same TL.
Absolutley not. Look at the TL5+ Mass Combat rules; they explicitly double TS every TL. Turhan's basically right.
Langy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2014, 09:15 PM   #10
Dwarf99
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fayetteville, Arkansas
Default Re: Mass Combat and Tech Level

So I pointed out in another thread that I had problems with TS as is. This thread has somewhat helped me understand why they did what they did, but I'm going to go ahead with the other system.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwarf99 View Post
I'd probably take Restricted Diet: Boiled Children
Dwarf99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.