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Old 03-19-2019, 01:19 PM   #31
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Crossbows and Ready Weapon option?

I think I'll continue to not DO anything about boomerangs (other than gripe, naturally), as they have no impact on my campaign. Anyway, given all the other quantitative funny business you could point to, it's probably just to think of it as a design 'slot' that lets you trade a certain level of special expertise for a certain level of effectiveness, and not to worry too much about it past that.
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Old 03-19-2019, 02:59 PM   #32
warhorse11h
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Crossbows and Ready Weapon option?

Quote:
Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
I think I'll continue to not DO anything about boomerangs (other than gripe, naturally), as they have no impact on my campaign. Anyway, given all the other quantitative funny business you could point to, it's probably just to think of it as a design 'slot' that lets you trade a certain level of special expertise for a certain level of effectiveness, and not to worry too much about it past that.
A workable and sensible decision, it works for me. I don't need more headaches. ;-)
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Old 03-19-2019, 07:16 PM   #33
JLV
 
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Default Re: Crossbows and Ready Weapon option?

Quote:
Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
I think I'll continue to not DO anything about boomerangs (other than gripe, naturally), as they have no impact on my campaign. Anyway, given all the other quantitative funny business you could point to, it's probably just to think of it as a design 'slot' that lets you trade a certain level of special expertise for a certain level of effectiveness, and not to worry too much about it past that.
Honestly, that's the best answer going for the vast majority of these rules quibbles.
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Old 03-20-2019, 02:57 PM   #34
Axly Suregrip
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Durham, NC
Default Re: Crossbows and Ready Weapon option?

A couple of points to make:

- With DX=14, the Light Crossbow may fire every turn. This makes it a better weapon than the Boomerang (more damage and same rate of fire, and more ammo). With 3 points in Missile Weapons skill a beginning fighter can achieve this.

- There are a number of special weapons that seem imbalanced. Boomerang, Whip, Lasso, Nunchuks and Shuriken Stars. Some by a little, others by a lot.
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Old 03-20-2019, 03:25 PM   #35
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Crossbows and Ready Weapon option?

ITL 112: "In addition to the standard sword, mace, spear, ax, and so on, a number of more unusual weapons exist. These weapons have special abilities but require special skills."

Sounds like GM license to veto these talents to me.
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Old 03-21-2019, 12:34 AM   #36
ak_aramis
 
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Default Re: Crossbows and Ready Weapon option?

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Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
But anyone who has monkeyed around in full armor (e.g., SCA combat) knows that a blunt wooden object can't hurt you in any significant way through a full helm or proper body armor.
I've seen a good bit in over 30 years in the SCA, and have fought heavy, still fight rapier; it's quite an overreach to claim that.

Head hits can still cause concussions. Limb hits can still cause dislocations. Even the best armor, hit at the right point, can do significant soft tissue damage when driven by a rattan bat...

I was soundly concussed by a dual strike to a good fitting, well padded helm. Concussed enough to lose control and hit the dirt.

Several fighters I know have damage to their ears from the noise of head hits. (not counting the ones who have day-jobs that destroy hearing.)

And thats ignoring the percussive damage to ears.
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Old 03-21-2019, 12:10 PM   #37
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Crossbows and Ready Weapon option?

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Originally Posted by ak_aramis View Post
I've seen a good bit in over 30 years in the SCA, and have fought heavy, still fight rapier; it's quite an overreach to claim that.

Head hits can still cause concussions. Limb hits can still cause dislocations. Even the best armor, hit at the right point, can do significant soft tissue damage when driven by a rattan bat...

I was soundly concussed by a dual strike to a good fitting, well padded helm. Concussed enough to lose control and hit the dirt.

Several fighters I know have damage to their ears from the noise of head hits. (not counting the ones who have day-jobs that destroy hearing.)

And thats ignoring the percussive damage to ears.
Maybe that's what double and triple damage rolls are there to cover. Have you ever seen someone's head explode into a cloud of red mist in an SCA fight? Because after all the thousands of people and millions of hours of whacking each other, that should have happened at some point if a stick can do 2d-1 damage and plate armor protects 5 points.
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Old 03-22-2019, 07:31 AM   #38
Axly Suregrip
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Durham, NC
Default Re: Crossbows and Ready Weapon option?

I rather not get into arguing if a weapon correctly models reality. It is a game and I look for balance. The only argument I like about reality is if a weapon if very powerful in the game, it better have been very common in real life. Success brings more use. Still, balance is most important for games.

Maybe this should be a different thread. We have wandered far from readying crossbows.
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Old 03-22-2019, 08:26 AM   #39
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Crossbows and Ready Weapon option?

That's the best counter argument, and it applies to pretty much all the other weapons as well. Boomerangs are ridiculous, but they are also not meaningfully better or worse than a lot of other things you could fight with in the game, so their presence is just a splash of color that some people will enjoy and others ignore.
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Old 03-23-2019, 12:08 AM   #40
JLV
 
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Default Re: Crossbows and Ready Weapon option?

I agree with Lars and Axly. Honestly, I've been thinking about saying something similar to Axly's comment for a while now (but was afraid someone would report me for "rudeness" or something, since someone seems to be doing that a lot).

Here's the thing -- this is TFT. A lot of these nitty-gritty discussions of damage and how fast someone can swing and all of that are way too detailed for this game. They make perfect sense in terms of a game like GURPS, but really, here in TFT, they just don't. Balance and the "feel" of the game are more important than the details of how many ounces of pressure are exerted on armor by the edge of a blade versus the point of a spike or the head of a mace. Not least because a five-second turn is an eternity in combat, whereas the one-second turns of GURPS virtually require an increased level of attention to the (admittedly fairly important in reality) details like that.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that at the end of the day, a lot of this detailed stuff just seems to me to be irrelevant to the game we're discussing. Sorry if I've offended anyone with my "rudeness" here, and believe me, it was not my intention to do so. I simply feel like we have a tendency to dive down into the weeds a bit more than we should sometimes (and yes, I'm guilty of the same thing from time to time...).

Sometimes it feels like those weird conversations you could occasionally stumble into in one of the big wargaming conventions back in the '70's and '80's (Origins, anyone?), where angry people would be shouting at one another over things like whether or not the front glacis armor on a Soviet T-34/85 could defeat a "modern" (well, they were in 1975!) HESH round... ;-)

Last edited by JLV; 03-23-2019 at 12:11 AM.
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