Promoting Ogre - Page 4

selenite · 04-18-2017, 10:53 PM

At this point I see updates through forums, mailing list, FB, and sometimes twitter (which I check irregularly, so miss a lot of posts).

To get me to support more . . . organized play is key. I'd love to have some skilled opponents to play against instead of folks I've just introduced to the game.

Right now my best source of opponents is the David Weber/Honor Harrington fan club, which awards ribbons to members for playing a certain number of wargames. Ogre is on the approved list of games so my local chapter lets me pull it every few meetings.

That said, I'm not into painting minis so I'm not going to be buying big batches of them. ODE has me maxed out on regular units and alternate factions. New scenarios interest me, I want to work my way through Scenario Book 2. Some different maps would also be sale, not G3 and S3 but something with a very different feel.

Knockman · 04-19-2017, 04:30 AM

OK, sorry for the long post, but I see this as important, so here goes.....

- Other than the forums, how do you learn about Ogre?

Now it’s FB and BGG mainly – the KS emails largely go ignored since I decided to abandon any hope that the KS Admin would ever develop controls/ethics/interest in protecting backers from rip-off creators. But that’s a personal preference. If you do use KS updates, make it specific and concise and title the update accordingly so that folks know what it’s about at first glance, e.g., “ODE Project – More T-Shirts Available.”

- Other than the forums, how would you prefer to hear about Ogre?

The mailing list should suffice, if it’s used properly to provide direct communication. You do that, then the mailing list becomes a more attractive and reliable resource, and more folks sign up to it. A mailing list is the prompter, the alert service, the direct method by which you keep folks updated on news and developments, and also has some re-direction to where additional information/discussion is available. Forums, FB, BGG and elsewhere should be the residual points where folks can obtain that more detailed info and to also join in any discussions.

- Are you subscribed to our mailing list? If not, why not? (Click "Join Group" in that link!)

Aye, I have and hope its working OK. Can I make a suggestion? To ensure folks have an easy point of reference, and can also easily check if they have missed an email update, how about numbering them? That way I can count off Update 1, then Update 2, then if I get Update 4, I know I might need to open up the Spam or Junk folder to see if Update 3 is languishing there, unloved. If in the forums I’m then talking about the latest news, and I can quote “it was in Update 6”, others will know what I’m talking about.

- (Knowing that I'm preaching to the choir): What will encourage you to support Ogre in the future?

1. A pledge of continued commitment from SJGames. You tell me that you won’t park Ogre again out back for a few years, then I will promote it. You show me you have a plan, perhaps over the next year or two, that lays down a production schedule of Ogre/GEV extras, and I will pre-order them for myself and promote all that too. You have the beginnings of some impetus here, to make Ogre as well known as some of your other more prolific lines. I can only hope that the engine doesn’t sputter out and stall, and that we don’t go back to the ‘Ogre Dark Ages’ where not a lot was happening. Please don’t do that.

2. Promotional items help in promotion. As has been suggested, we need more. More merchandise you have behind a brand, the better the common perception is that it’s more established. Patches – this seems to be popular, so why not – fictional units we have, like the Black Rose Mercs, and how about Troop Type patches for GEVs, Heavy Tanks, Infantry, Marines, etc. You won’t need to provide for all types – not sure many would tote a ‘GEV-PC’ patch unless they are a taxi-driver by trade – but these would make handy giveaways. The same goes with the coloured dice with symbols, lapel badges, the shot glasses, bags, posters, and the various garments, etc.

- What am I/are we doing right?

Quite a lot, thankfully, and well done for continuing with this. You’re developing a healthy forum here, it’s also good to see some occasional ‘official’ support elsewhere on FB and BGG with some of the comments posted there. So you have established a good foundation, and communications are developing well, but there will soon come a time when you may need to put in the extra attention on how you co-ordinate those comms.

- What am I/are we doing wrong?

Nothing wrong per-se but there’s that nagging hesitation that I guess many of the Ogre Old Guard have (and perhaps some of the Young Guard too?) that we’ve seen these flashes of dedication before, followed by the inevitable lull, and then back to silence again. I really hope that is not the case, hence why I mentioned the continued commitment pledge. I know and accept Munchkin is a cash-cow, and no doubt other lines make SJGames turn around an easier and greater income-to-effort return. But Ogre (and to an extent Car Wars too) are the company’s ‘Classic’ lines. They are legacy achievements in the gaming world from an earlier era that with the results then more recently achieved with ODE & 6Edition, prove there’s yet more life, some charm and a lot of gaming happiness still to be had from this great product.

Follow-up question: What should we change to improve this?

1. As mentioned by others, make the Pocket Edition easily available. Either make $5 or $7 versions, or produce a watermarked template so that free Print-&-Play PDFs can be downloaded for folks to make their own. This is the easiest way to encourage new players to discover the game to then go on and purchase the proper game material.

2. Adopt a similar pre-order system used by someone like GMT Games – their P500 club, for instance. There will always be folks who will commit to new product once it’s been showcased and discussed in the forum, and a production outline then published to show what’s involved. You should have handy data from the KS projects to discern whether this is achievable or not. Alternately, you produced the GEV-Maps (green maps) for the ODE – set up a GEVMaps-1000 campaign, perhaps asking folks to pledge a 50% deposit as their own personal commitment. That provides you capital to get the print-run done, plus potentially X amount extra for future W23 stock. Complete the GEVMaps-1000 campaign with final dispatch to the backers upon them providing the remaining 50% pledge. But before any of that is launched, get a tight timetable nailed down with printer and shippers of the product. You don’t need to pronounce that timetable to us in detail, but you need to be able to tell everyone that this can be delivered, start to finish, within X amount of months.

3. Don’t forget the Rest of the World. You have a great base of players and fans established in USA, but you have quite a few more around the rest of the globe. This isn’t a personal dig at SJGames, as actually, you are one of the better US-based companies to remember we’re not all ‘Combine’. But it is a regular monotony to see time and time again from others, especially KS creators, who ignore or forget such things as ‘international shipping’ or ‘overseas distribution’. Please don’t slip down to their levels.

Any other comments or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Finally, this is my personal observation. You have a great product line that is suitably ‘bookended’ at each end of the shelf. What do I mean by that? Well, at one end you have the basics – the pocket editions in black & white, the base set that is now 6th Edition, some more scenarios and some other extras via W23 that allows players to begin the exploration of all things ‘Ogre’. At the other end of the shelf, the opposite ‘bookend’, you have Ogre Miniatures and Ogre GURPS, so that you can cater for the hard-core fans who have already taken Ogre further into a wargame or role-play setting.

So, after what is it, four decades? Perhaps it’s time we started filling that middle part of the shelf? We have an official Timeline that provides a skeleton reference, and we have a ‘Last War’. We even have a ‘Factory States’ era.

How about developing all that further?

How about a Sourcebook for the 2046-2049 Sino-European War – a pre-Ogre conflict that provides a foundation for a re-release of GEV? Lots of details on commander characters, unit profiles, kit & equipment, campaign maps, battles, that all lead to providing some GEV scenarios. Make these Sourcebooks suitable for the boardgame and the miniatures game alike, and the content can also be useful reference for RPGs too.

Another Sourcebook for the Quebecois Uprising of 2065 – the introduction of the early Mark Ogres, and expands GEV warfare into forest/tundra and urban/semi-urban environments?

And that paves the way for the Sourcebooks for the Last War, which if the above two have been published beforehand, means you have had practice and experience in what works best. This then develops the Ogre/GEV game even further, providing an even richer background for those who want to give their games more context. And there’s plenty of potential in the ‘Last War’ to keep the overall impetus of Ogre going for quite a few years hopefully.

And we don’t need to worry about those who still prefer the basics – the Ogre on a blasted map tackling the progressive scenarios, as all of that is already catered for within the basic game.

Of course all of that will need authors. But I think you can already see that there are quite a few of us out there capable of providing ideas and material that just needs discussing and collating to meet the accepted canon.

All of that would put the juicy delicious filling in your Ogre sandwich that will then get folks coming back for more!

Belle Sorciere · 04-19-2017, 04:33 AM

I mostly learn about Ogre through Warehouse 23. That is I was checking it regularly for a couple of years for when some version of Ogre would be available again. Which it was! Now I learn about it through the mailing list.

I'm fine with hearing about Ogre through the mailing list. Okay, also the facebook group which is not officially run by SJG but it does seem to be a good source of news.

I am subscribed to the mailing list!

What will encourage me to support Ogre is the release of more Ogre products. I mean I'm not really getting into the miniatures side of things, but more products like Reinforcements (or products unlike Reinforcements but still relevant to Ogre) will mean I keep buying them.

One thing I think you personally are doing right is your enthusiastic participation in this forum and providing new posters (like me) links to resources and such.

If you're doing something wrong I haven't been paying close enough attention to catch it. Which isn't to say you're not doing anything wrong, just that the positive so far for me has meant I haven't noticed it.

Ashley · 04-19-2017, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf90

Reading the forum on the Stakeholder report, it's apparent that SJGs can do a better job in communicating with the gaming world. So I'd like to examine that a bit. I know a number of changes are already occurring to improve this from a company-wide perspective, but I want to know how should we do this for Ogre? So with that in mind, I'd like to open up the forum to an evaluation as to our communication on Ogre. I can't properly advance the game if I don't know what matters to you.

- Other than the forums, how do you learn about Ogre?

First off a preference thing, which for me is important. Instigate https for the forum.

To answer the question: Facebook and other wargame forums: like TMP and Dakka Dakka.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf90

- What am I/are we doing wrong? Follow-up question: What should we change to improve this?

Any other comments or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

My big beef, speaking as an MIB, is the rigidity of SJG demo policy as applied to Ogre. IMNSHO, Ogre/GEV just needs to be demoed; it doesn't matter what edition, it should be about the game.

Also, miniatures are a thing that has its own sub-culture, which lots of people at SJG just don't get or support. I understand that it's not profitable enough to support, but here's the thing: not supporting those of us who are into miniatures to promote Ogre/GEV is effectively shooting the IP in the foot.

Again, rewards are great–by this I mean MIB points–but not allowing them to be used to get Ogre/GEV products means why bother to demo the game other than for the obvious reason that I love the game, which only goes so far.

Furthermore, there seems to be no actual understanding of the time/cost ratio of preparing miniatures to a standard that enhance the presentation of the game.

Mack_JB · 04-19-2017, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FJCestero

Diversify. I know we've got Ogre T-Shirts and dice and Coffee mugs, but you don't push them (it doesn't seem). Unit patches are good too. Heck, comics and action figures aren't beyond the fringe at this point. I dunno if Ogre itself can make a pile of cash by itself. Neither did Star Wars, the movie. The mint came from merchandising. SJGames owns THE iconic cybertank: use it.

Yes, Promotionals, even something like cheap give-away pens with the SJG website, and the Ogre logo. For the "Exploding Kittens" KS, which I was heavy into, I bought 300 pens from Pens-R-Us for about $80 for the "Kitten Corps" folks running the promo games ... simple and easy to do.

Bowser · 04-19-2017, 09:15 PM

I've read a lot of good responses here and I don't know how much this will add, but what the heck . . . (FYI, I've been playing AND BUYING Ogre material since 1978.)

I particularly like Knockman's response above. Read it again just to reinforce such excellent feedback!

- Other than the forums, how do you learn about Ogre?

I probably don't fit the demographic that you're looking to fully leverage, so I don't know how valuable this information will be to you. While computer literate, as I age I find myself increasingly out of touch with the digital world. I no longer am on the bleeding edge of digital technology. Rather, imagine an active, knowledgeable computer user circa 2005 or so and you'll have me pegged.

So, I don't use Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest, etc., etc. I try to read the Forums every day and I've subscribed to the newsletter. Oh, yeah. I appreciate the Kickstarter emails. Other than that, nada.

- Other than the forums, how would you prefer to hear about Ogre?

The newsletter is a great idea, but I think that I've only received one or two. The idea about numbering them in the 'Subject' line is an excellent idea to protect against missing one.

- Are you subscribed to our mailing list? If not, why not? (Click "Join Group" in that link!)

Yup.

- (Knowing that I'm preaching to the choir): What will encourage you to support Ogre in the future?

Support. See some of the above responses. Doesn't need to be all the time. (I got out of Magic cards because it was too much too fast!) Doesn't need to be a lot. (I really like the idea of various patches. And even though they're probably the most expensive component(s), I just LOVE new maps!!) But keep the game in print, at least in some form.

I've gone thru the sparse Ogre era of the late '80s, enjoyed the Ogre Miniatures book even though I don't really play miniatures, but Y2K was something else.

Here's the thing: All of this great Ogre stuff that came out in 2000 and 2001! Wow! The future looked bright. And then . . . nothing. And more nothing. And the game went out of print. If you're not willing to move forward, at least don't slide back. I know you can't keep everything in print, but at least keep the basic game in print. Again, "at least in some form".

Beyond that, I'd like to see some new terrain types, some form of Sea Ogre, source material on The Last War and the Factory States Era, etc. Whatever I can get. Health allowing, I'm probably a solid customer for at least another 15 years or so.

- What am I/are we doing right?

A LOT! You are a reliable conduit between us and SJG. I love that you are a constant presence on these forums. The fact that you are asking these questions is huge in and of itself. And I like the fact that when things don't go right or are delayed, SJG is prompt in letting us know. It's easy to be patient when we know this.

- What am I/are we doing wrong? Follow-up question: What should we change to improve this?

I can't think of a thing, but then I'm not the biggest demographic that you need to deal with. You had me before the first edition of The Ogre Book.

Edit - A vitally important question: How should we attract new players?

This is a good question that others will have to help you with. I'm old (60 yrs) and my social circle is currently small. For the last two years, I have had no opportunity to game (any game). Some of my friends might be interested, but guess what? They alreadly know and like Ogre! I live in a rural area. No, not in a town that is small and rurally located. I live on a farm out in the country. I'm hoping that the new computer Ogre game might be able to be played solo and online with players in other locations. I might be able to reach a few others with that!

Drew, thanks for the opportunity to provide you with some feedback.

Bowser

GreyHart · 04-21-2017, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf90

How should we attract new players?

I think this needs a caveat as "How should we attract AND KEEP new players?" As someone who has worked for three different game companies I can tell you its EASY to get someone interested, but in today's gaming market with all the choices out there it's hard to KEEP them interested.

A couple ways you can do this is have already been mentioned by others.

- promote the game
- support the game

Promoting the game can be done in several ways, advertising for one. Online, in game/trade magazines, etc. Holding "official" events/tournaments with prizes and giveaways to draw people in, especially at larger conventions or venues. Everyone likes to get free stuff. Having MIBs hold demos at the FLGS is a also a good way to catch peoples attention, although it can be difficult if the local group is entrenched in certain games or genres. I've run into this countless times running demos. People get a demo, think the game is cool but don't buy into it because they're too focused on "x" game locally. And as a company give your volunteers YOUR FULL SUPPORT. I've also been victim of poor company support while spending countless hours and dollars trying to promote and support THEIR product. Remember the old adage, "Take care of your employees and they'll take care of you." You cannot build a great game with a solid player-base without the hard work of these people.

Supporting the game is essential. You can have a great game that gathers a lot of attention and players but if the support is not there after the initial "Oooh, shiney!" then you're going to lose your potential player base. I can give an example I've seen locally (not using the game companies name, but some of you might be able to guess). I - and several other local people - bought into a Kickstarter from a well known game company for a miniatures game they were producing. When the first wave of mini's were released response was positive,people were raving about the game and minis, and game play took off like a rocket. Problems developed and the second wave of minis was delayed.. and delayed.. and yet again delayed. People who were strong supporters of the game here became frustrated and pretty much all of them quit playing and sold off their stuff due to lack of support. I know this is somewhat of an extreme case, but it illustrates what can happen.

Now I'm not advocating the insane roll-out schedule that some companies have for their products to support rabid fans, but there needs to be at least a steady measured flow of new products, organized play, and the like. This way the game will continue to grow, see support and remain visible.

Wow, I got a bit long-winded on that one. <steps off soapbox>

Misplaced Buckeye · 04-21-2017, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreyHart

I think this needs a caveat as "How should we attract AND KEEP new players?" As someone who has worked for three different game companies I can tell you its EASY to get someone interested, but in today's gaming market with all the choices out there it's hard to KEEP them interested.

A couple ways you can do this is have already been mentioned by others.

- promote the game
- support the game

Promoting the game can be done in several ways, advertising for one. Online, in game/trade magazines, etc. Holding "official" events/tournaments with prizes and giveaways to draw people in, especially at larger conventions or venues. Everyone likes to get free stuff. Having MIBs hold demos at the FLGS is a also a good way to catch peoples attention, although it can be difficult if the local group is entrenched in certain games or genres. I've run into this countless times running demos. People get a demo, think the game is cool but don't buy into it because they're too focused on "x" game locally. And as a company give your volunteers YOUR FULL SUPPORT. I've also been victim of poor company support while spending countless hours and dollars trying to promote and support THEIR product. Remember the old adage, "Take care of your employees and they'll take care of you." You cannot build a great game with a solid player-base without the hard work of these people.

Supporting the game is essential. You can have a great game that gathers a lot of attention and players but if the support is not there after the initial "Oooh, shiney!" then you're going to lose your potential player base. I can give an example I've seen locally (not using the game companies name, but some of you might be able to guess). I - and several other local people - bought into a Kickstarter from a well known game company for a miniatures game they were producing. When the first wave of mini's were released response was positive,people were raving about the game and minis, and game play took off like a rocket. Problems developed and the second wave of minis was delayed.. and delayed.. and yet again delayed. People who were strong supporters of the game here became frustrated and pretty much all of them quit playing and sold off their stuff due to lack of support. I know this is somewhat of an extreme case, but it illustrates what can happen.

Now I'm not advocating the insane roll-out schedule that some companies have for their products to support rabid fans, but there needs to be at least a steady measured flow of new products, organized play, and the like. This way the game will continue to grow, see support and remain visible.

Wow, I got a bit long-winded on that one. <steps off soapbox>

AMEN BROTHER !! Shout it to the rooftops!

Tim Kauffman · 04-24-2017, 03:47 AM

* OGRE absolutely needs to have some animation footage done showcasing all the radioactive uniqueness of The LAST WAR. Ranging from Short Teaser Clips to a Full-Length Movie. (Ok...dreaming there about the movie). ;)

The flagship, obviously is the Mark5...it's Iconic for good reason. Imho, it's as cool looking as anything else out in the wild that features in full length big-budget movies. The OGRE art and background story compliment each other making OGRE greater than the sum of it's parts. The image and the story(.) OGRE has both inspiring story and artwork. We need to build more upon that foundation...unleash the OGRE! Scenarios are vital, obviously, but stories and artwork Imho, are even more important for peaking someones interest in a IP.

*The more stuff someone can read or look the better. Such will inspire other OGRE related ideas, growing the IP and sales.

*Playthrough videos of games would really be cool. Here's one I did for the GEV Escort Scenario: https://youtu.be/TzctnVqBvV8
They are tedious and time consuming to make, and prone to mistakes being made about what happened with what units where and when but well worth the playback.

*It would be really cool to have all the official story stuff ever made in one area people can visit and just browse cool OGRE stories and background writings.
"MacGregor's Maxim" by Jack L. Thomas, "GEV"and "END GAME" By J.D. Bell are available, (I'm a sucker for the human element in OGRE and GEVs, what can I say. It's the contrast of the two that makes for some unique and interesting story and unit possibilities),
but I'm talking about having ALL the stories in one place...

*It would be really cool to have all the official artwork ever made in one area people can visit and just browse cool OGRE artwork.

*The formating and creation of a OGRE exclusive site would be really great. So many links are overlooked or skipped over because they are not obvious and OGRE suffers because "the word" is not getting out this way.

*MAKE OGRE MORE OBVIOUS and interaction friendly. Give people more OGRE stuff to see and click on. Images are powerful, use them as much as possible! I give the example of FLICKER, which I use to put stuff into categories that can then be arranged for a more visitor friendly look and navigation.
BGG and FACEBOOK are very useful, but they do have their limits based on their inherent formating. For example, BGG has a category were you can post stuff in their "Forum", but it's all by posting date and it's difficult and time consuming to navigate or search for topic specific posts, like "New FanMade Units" because they will be mixed with other posts that would be better in sub categories people can just look at and click on instead of scrolling for eternity to search for them.

For example, there is no OGRE header on the W23 Site to click on to take you to OGRE stuff for sale! I'm baffled by this. There should be a great big giant O G R E clickable link there Imho.

Oh, please restock more M Size Blue OGRE Blueprint T-Shirts they are "Out-Of-Stock". ;)
...and a Mark5 Plush simply must happen. :D

Jim Stearns · 04-24-2017, 06:40 PM

Drew,

I've seen this mentioned by others so pardon me for repeating two places that are not the SJG forums or the BGG forums... FACEBOOK and GOOGLE+

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1148...?ref=bookmarks

https://plus.google.com/communities/...08273966814354

FaceBook has several SJG types as members, along with a few of the 4.5K Sponsors... Come on Drew, you know you want to participate!

04-18-2017, 10:53 PM	#31
selenite Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Minnesota	Re: Promoting Ogre At this point I see updates through forums, mailing list, FB, and sometimes twitter (which I check irregularly, so miss a lot of posts). To get me to support more . . . organized play is key. I'd love to have some skilled opponents to play against instead of folks I've just introduced to the game. Right now my best source of opponents is the David Weber/Honor Harrington fan club, which awards ribbons to members for playing a certain number of wargames. Ogre is on the approved list of games so my local chapter lets me pull it every few meetings. That said, I'm not into painting minis so I'm not going to be buying big batches of them. ODE has me maxed out on regular units and alternate factions. New scenarios interest me, I want to work my way through Scenario Book 2. Some different maps would also be sale, not G3 and S3 but something with a very different feel.

04-19-2017, 04:30 AM	#32
Knockman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Cumbria/Northumberland border, UK	Re: Promoting Ogre OK, sorry for the long post, but I see this as important, so here goes..... - Other than the forums, how do you learn about Ogre? Now it’s FB and BGG mainly – the KS emails largely go ignored since I decided to abandon any hope that the KS Admin would ever develop controls/ethics/interest in protecting backers from rip-off creators. But that’s a personal preference. If you do use KS updates, make it specific and concise and title the update accordingly so that folks know what it’s about at first glance, e.g., “ODE Project – More T-Shirts Available.” - Other than the forums, how would you prefer to hear about Ogre? The mailing list should suffice, if it’s used properly to provide direct communication. You do that, then the mailing list becomes a more attractive and reliable resource, and more folks sign up to it. A mailing list is the prompter, the alert service, the direct method by which you keep folks updated on news and developments, and also has some re-direction to where additional information/discussion is available. Forums, FB, BGG and elsewhere should be the residual points where folks can obtain that more detailed info and to also join in any discussions. - Are you subscribed to our mailing list? If not, why not? (Click "Join Group" in that link!) Aye, I have and hope its working OK. Can I make a suggestion? To ensure folks have an easy point of reference, and can also easily check if they have missed an email update, how about numbering them? That way I can count off Update 1, then Update 2, then if I get Update 4, I know I might need to open up the Spam or Junk folder to see if Update 3 is languishing there, unloved. If in the forums I’m then talking about the latest news, and I can quote “it was in Update 6”, others will know what I’m talking about. - (Knowing that I'm preaching to the choir): What will encourage you to support Ogre in the future? 1. A pledge of continued commitment from SJGames. You tell me that you won’t park Ogre again out back for a few years, then I will promote it. You show me you have a plan, perhaps over the next year or two, that lays down a production schedule of Ogre/GEV extras, and I will pre-order them for myself and promote all that too. You have the beginnings of some impetus here, to make Ogre as well known as some of your other more prolific lines. I can only hope that the engine doesn’t sputter out and stall, and that we don’t go back to the ‘Ogre Dark Ages’ where not a lot was happening. Please don’t do that. 2. Promotional items help in promotion. As has been suggested, we need more. More merchandise you have behind a brand, the better the common perception is that it’s more established. Patches – this seems to be popular, so why not – fictional units we have, like the Black Rose Mercs, and how about Troop Type patches for GEVs, Heavy Tanks, Infantry, Marines, etc. You won’t need to provide for all types – not sure many would tote a ‘GEV-PC’ patch unless they are a taxi-driver by trade – but these would make handy giveaways. The same goes with the coloured dice with symbols, lapel badges, the shot glasses, bags, posters, and the various garments, etc. - What am I/are we doing right? Quite a lot, thankfully, and well done for continuing with this. You’re developing a healthy forum here, it’s also good to see some occasional ‘official’ support elsewhere on FB and BGG with some of the comments posted there. So you have established a good foundation, and communications are developing well, but there will soon come a time when you may need to put in the extra attention on how you co-ordinate those comms. - What am I/are we doing wrong? Nothing wrong per-se but there’s that nagging hesitation that I guess many of the Ogre Old Guard have (and perhaps some of the Young Guard too?) that we’ve seen these flashes of dedication before, followed by the inevitable lull, and then back to silence again. I really hope that is not the case, hence why I mentioned the continued commitment pledge. I know and accept Munchkin is a cash-cow, and no doubt other lines make SJGames turn around an easier and greater income-to-effort return. But Ogre (and to an extent Car Wars too) are the company’s ‘Classic’ lines. They are legacy achievements in the gaming world from an earlier era that with the results then more recently achieved with ODE & 6Edition, prove there’s yet more life, some charm and a lot of gaming happiness still to be had from this great product. Follow-up question: What should we change to improve this? 1. As mentioned by others, make the Pocket Edition easily available. Either make $5 or $7 versions, or produce a watermarked template so that free Print-&-Play PDFs can be downloaded for folks to make their own. This is the easiest way to encourage new players to discover the game to then go on and purchase the proper game material. 2. Adopt a similar pre-order system used by someone like GMT Games – their P500 club, for instance. There will always be folks who will commit to new product once it’s been showcased and discussed in the forum, and a production outline then published to show what’s involved. You should have handy data from the KS projects to discern whether this is achievable or not. Alternately, you produced the GEV-Maps (green maps) for the ODE – set up a GEVMaps-1000 campaign, perhaps asking folks to pledge a 50% deposit as their own personal commitment. That provides you capital to get the print-run done, plus potentially X amount extra for future W23 stock. Complete the GEVMaps-1000 campaign with final dispatch to the backers upon them providing the remaining 50% pledge. But before any of that is launched, get a tight timetable nailed down with printer and shippers of the product. You don’t need to pronounce that timetable to us in detail, but you need to be able to tell everyone that this can be delivered, start to finish, within X amount of months. 3. Don’t forget the Rest of the World. You have a great base of players and fans established in USA, but you have quite a few more around the rest of the globe. This isn’t a personal dig at SJGames, as actually, you are one of the better US-based companies to remember we’re not all ‘Combine’. But it is a regular monotony to see time and time again from others, especially KS creators, who ignore or forget such things as ‘international shipping’ or ‘overseas distribution’. Please don’t slip down to their levels. Any other comments or suggestions are greatly appreciated. Finally, this is my personal observation. You have a great product line that is suitably ‘bookended’ at each end of the shelf. What do I mean by that? Well, at one end you have the basics – the pocket editions in black & white, the base set that is now 6th Edition, some more scenarios and some other extras via W23 that allows players to begin the exploration of all things ‘Ogre’. At the other end of the shelf, the opposite ‘bookend’, you have Ogre Miniatures and Ogre GURPS, so that you can cater for the hard-core fans who have already taken Ogre further into a wargame or role-play setting. So, after what is it, four decades? Perhaps it’s time we started filling that middle part of the shelf? We have an official Timeline that provides a skeleton reference, and we have a ‘Last War’. We even have a ‘Factory States’ era. How about developing all that further? How about a Sourcebook for the 2046-2049 Sino-European War – a pre-Ogre conflict that provides a foundation for a re-release of GEV? Lots of details on commander characters, unit profiles, kit & equipment, campaign maps, battles, that all lead to providing some GEV scenarios. Make these Sourcebooks suitable for the boardgame and the miniatures game alike, and the content can also be useful reference for RPGs too. Another Sourcebook for the Quebecois Uprising of 2065 – the introduction of the early Mark Ogres, and expands GEV warfare into forest/tundra and urban/semi-urban environments? And that paves the way for the Sourcebooks for the Last War, which if the above two have been published beforehand, means you have had practice and experience in what works best. This then develops the Ogre/GEV game even further, providing an even richer background for those who want to give their games more context. And there’s plenty of potential in the ‘Last War’ to keep the overall impetus of Ogre going for quite a few years hopefully. And we don’t need to worry about those who still prefer the basics – the Ogre on a blasted map tackling the progressive scenarios, as all of that is already catered for within the basic game. Of course all of that will need authors. But I think you can already see that there are quite a few of us out there capable of providing ideas and material that just needs discussing and collating to meet the accepted canon. All of that would put the juicy delicious filling in your Ogre sandwich that will then get folks coming back for more! __________________ $4.5K Counter Sheet Sponsors - Strategic & Tactical Objectives by Tiffin Games UK E-mail Contact: tiffingames@gmail.com BGG Link: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgamee...ponsored-count Update: 8th June 2018 - officially formatted S&TO Rules Version 3 now available on this website.

04-19-2017, 04:33 AM	#33
Belle Sorciere Join Date: Feb 2017	Re: Promoting Ogre I mostly learn about Ogre through Warehouse 23. That is I was checking it regularly for a couple of years for when some version of Ogre would be available again. Which it was! Now I learn about it through the mailing list. I'm fine with hearing about Ogre through the mailing list. Okay, also the facebook group which is not officially run by SJG but it does seem to be a good source of news. I am subscribed to the mailing list! What will encourage me to support Ogre is the release of more Ogre products. I mean I'm not really getting into the miniatures side of things, but more products like Reinforcements (or products unlike Reinforcements but still relevant to Ogre) will mean I keep buying them. One thing I think you personally are doing right is your enthusiastic participation in this forum and providing new posters (like me) links to resources and such. If you're doing something wrong I haven't been paying close enough attention to catch it. Which isn't to say you're not doing anything wrong, just that the positive so far for me has meant I haven't noticed it.

04-19-2017, 09:15 PM	#36
Bowser Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Genoa, NE	Re: Promoting Ogre I've read a lot of good responses here and I don't know how much this will add, but what the heck . . . (FYI, I've been playing AND BUYING Ogre material since 1978.) I particularly like Knockman's response above. Read it again just to reinforce such excellent feedback! - Other than the forums, how do you learn about Ogre? I probably don't fit the demographic that you're looking to fully leverage, so I don't know how valuable this information will be to you. While computer literate, as I age I find myself increasingly out of touch with the digital world. I no longer am on the bleeding edge of digital technology. Rather, imagine an active, knowledgeable computer user circa 2005 or so and you'll have me pegged. So, I don't use Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest, etc., etc. I try to read the Forums every day and I've subscribed to the newsletter. Oh, yeah. I appreciate the Kickstarter emails. Other than that, nada. - Other than the forums, how would you prefer to hear about Ogre? The newsletter is a great idea, but I think that I've only received one or two. The idea about numbering them in the 'Subject' line is an excellent idea to protect against missing one. - Are you subscribed to our mailing list? If not, why not? (Click "Join Group" in that link!) Yup. - (Knowing that I'm preaching to the choir): What will encourage you to support Ogre* in the future?* Support. See some of the above responses. Doesn't need to be all the time. (I got out of Magic cards because it was too much too fast!) Doesn't need to be a lot. (I really like the idea of various patches. And even though they're probably the most expensive component(s), I just LOVE new maps!!) But keep the game in print, at least in some form. I've gone thru the sparse Ogre era of the late '80s, enjoyed the Ogre Miniatures book even though I don't really play miniatures, but Y2K was something else. Here's the thing: All of this great Ogre stuff that came out in 2000 and 2001! Wow! The future looked bright. And then . . . nothing. And more nothing. And the game went out of print. If you're not willing to move forward, at least don't slide back. I know you can't keep everything in print, but at least keep the basic game in print. Again, "at least in some form". Beyond that, I'd like to see some new terrain types, some form of Sea Ogre, source material on The Last War and the Factory States Era, etc. Whatever I can get. Health allowing, I'm probably a solid customer for at least another 15 years or so. - What am I/are we doing right? A LOT! You are a reliable conduit between us and SJG. I love that you are a constant presence on these forums. The fact that you are asking these questions is huge in and of itself. And I like the fact that when things don't go right or are delayed, SJG is prompt in letting us know. It's easy to be patient when we know this. - What am I/are we doing wrong? Follow-up question: What should we change to improve this? I can't think of a thing, but then I'm not the biggest demographic that you need to deal with. You had me before the first edition of *The Ogre Book. Edit - A vitally important question: How should we attract new players?* This is a good question that others will have to help you with. I'm old (60 yrs) and my social circle is currently small. For the last two years, I have had no opportunity to game (any game). Some of my friends might be interested, but guess what? They alreadly know and like Ogre! I live in a rural area. No, not in a town that is small and rurally located. I live on a farm out in the country. I'm hoping that the new computer *Ogre* game might be able to be played solo and online with players in other locations. I might be able to reach a few others with that! Drew, thanks for the opportunity to provide you with some feedback. Bowser __________________ S+++ O1() O2+ G+++ S++ RP++ OM() B++ GO() O6e() PO+++ HR/NU- MK3() MK5-- CM-- W() KS+++ based on Michael Powers' message in 2001/gevfeb23.txt

04-24-2017, 03:47 AM	#39
Tim Kauffman Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Pennsylvania	Re: Promoting Ogre * OGRE absolutely needs to have some animation footage done showcasing all the radioactive uniqueness of The LAST WAR. Ranging from Short Teaser Clips to a Full-Length Movie. (Ok...dreaming there about the movie). ;) The flagship, obviously is the Mark5...it's Iconic for good reason. Imho, it's as cool looking as anything else out in the wild that features in full length big-budget movies. The OGRE art and background story compliment each other making OGRE greater than the sum of it's parts. The image and the story(.) OGRE has both inspiring story and artwork. We need to build more upon that foundation...unleash the OGRE! Scenarios are vital, obviously, but stories and artwork Imho, are even more important for peaking someones interest in a IP. The more stuff someone can read or look the better. Such will inspire other OGRE related ideas, growing the IP and sales. Playthrough videos of games would really be cool. Here's one I did for the GEV Escort Scenario: https://youtu.be/TzctnVqBvV8 They are tedious and time consuming to make, and prone to mistakes being made about what happened with what units where and when but well worth the playback. It would be really cool to have all the official story stuff ever made in one area people can visit and just browse cool OGRE stories and background writings. "MacGregor's Maxim" by Jack L. Thomas, "GEV"and "END GAME" By J.D. Bell are available, (I'm a sucker for the human element in OGRE and GEVs, what can I say. It's the contrast of the two that makes for some unique and interesting story and unit possibilities), but I'm talking about having ALL the stories in one place... It would be really cool to have all the official artwork ever made in one area people can visit and just browse cool OGRE artwork. The formating and creation of a OGRE exclusive site would be really great. So many links are overlooked or skipped over because they are not obvious and OGRE suffers because "the word" is not getting out this way. MAKE OGRE MORE OBVIOUS and interaction friendly. Give people more OGRE stuff to see and click on. Images are powerful, use them as much as possible! I give the example of FLICKER, which I use to put stuff into categories that can then be arranged for a more visitor friendly look and navigation. BGG and FACEBOOK are very useful, but they do have their limits based on their inherent formating. For example, BGG has a category were you can post stuff in their "Forum", but it's all by posting date and it's difficult and time consuming to navigate or search for topic specific posts, like "New FanMade Units" because they will be mixed with other posts that would be better in sub categories people can just look at and click on instead of scrolling for eternity to search for them. For example, there is no OGRE header on the W23 Site to click on to take you to OGRE stuff for sale! I'm baffled by this. There should be a great big giant O G R E clickable link there Imho. Oh, please restock more M Size Blue OGRE Blueprint T-Shirts they are "Out-Of-Stock". ;) ...and a Mark5 Plush simply must happen. :D __________________ "So I stood my ground...my only hope to die as I had always lived-fighting" John Carter of Mars Last edited by Tim Kauffman; 04-29-2017 at 08:42 PM.

04-24-2017, 06:40 PM	#40
Jim Stearns Join Date: Mar 2016	Re: Promoting Ogre Drew, I've seen this mentioned by others so pardon me for repeating two places that are not the SJG forums or the BGG forums... FACEBOOK and GOOGLE+ https://www.facebook.com/groups/1148...?ref=bookmarks https://plus.google.com/communities/...08273966814354 FaceBook has several SJG types as members, along with a few of the 4.5K Sponsors... Come on Drew, you know you want to participate!