Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-27-2017, 01:26 PM   #1
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default LE/Police Hand-to-Hand, Arrest Techniques, Control Tactics or Use of Force

A lot of what modern police officers are taught seems to be functionally the same martial art style, albeit one with a lot of different schools. At least, it differs no more than various Escrima or BJJ schools might differ from each other. The style is obviously quite similar to Passive Restraint on p. 46 of GURPS Martial Arts: Technical Grappling, with the addition of more proactive arrest techniques, the use of weapons such as batons or OC spray and tools such as handcuffs.

The skills are usually one primary grappling skill, which might be modelled as Judo or Wrestling* as well as Shortsword for batons. Tonfa replaces Shortsword in some versions, though with the popularity of expanding batons, less and less in varieties I'm familiar with.

Liquid Projector (Sprayer) would be a primary skill for many variations and at least an Optional skill for nearly all modern versions of Arrest Techniques.

Good training ought to include Diplomacy as a primary skill and it's at least an Optional skill for any variety of training in the Use of Force continuum that isn't being taught to actual soulless stormtroopers in a fictional setting.

Striking barehanded is relegated to Optional skills in most cases, if it is even taught at all. Brawling skill would be much more appropriate than Karate. Of course, recruits might occasionally have learned Boxing, Brawling or Karate in their private lives, in which case they might use it in the field, but that would be the result of training in another style as well.

The more or less universal technique would be Handcuffing. Other popular techniques are Arm or Wrist Lock, Armed Grapple (Shortsword), Change Position, Disarming, Force Posture Change, Low Fighting and Sweep.

Retain Weapon is sometimes included, especially for the baton. Whether to count Retain Weapon for service firearms as part of this style or the Modern Pistol that armed police usually learn is a fairly minor aesthetic issue for modelling purposes. I'd be inclined to include them here as well, at least as Optional techniques if only because the Use of Force continuum courses for many agencies teach arrest techniques with plastic training guns as part of the grappling/hand-to-hand techniques of training, but other GMs might differ.

Choke Hold is a controversial technique, once considered emblematic of many varieties of this style, but now disemphasised or even banned in some police agencies after a series of law suits in California and elsewhere.

Pass Limb doesn't seem to be written up as a Technique in Technical Grappling. I don't see any reason for it not to be available as a technique and it would certainly fit this style.

Break Free and Escaping Parry would be included in several varities, primarily in countries where police using firearms or even less-than-lethal weapons is viewed with extreme suspicion by politicians and the populace. As a result, many arrests essentially become grappling matches and it's very common for police to be enthusiastic grapplers and be trained by BJJ/judoka/champion glíma competitors.

Judo Throw may or may not be included and if it is, that is an obvious sign that the grappling skill taught may be Judo. Given the poor Training Bonus of Judo and the need for police to be able to subdue and handcuff even very strong and angry men, a point or two of Judo may be taught alongside the primary investment in Sumo Wrestling or Wrestling.

The most important Perk is Teamwork. Other Perks include Grip Mastery (Baton), Off-Hand Weapon Training (Baton or Liquid Projector) and Technique Mastery (Change Position; Force Posture Change; Handcuffing; Pass Limb).

The main reason I want to codify this fairly simple training is that I think effective law enforcement personnel who can arrest resisting subjects need to have the Teamwork Perk. And Teamwork is usually specialised by Style Familiarity. It's untidy to have every single police department or federal agency teaching a seperate Teamwork Perk.

I've also got a few characters who have belonged to more than one federal law enforcement agency. I'd like to know what Style Familiarities to assign them and whether they need one or more Teamwork Perk.

The specific agencies I'm considering at the moment include:

Coast Guard (USCG)
Secret Service (USSS)
Immigrations & Customs Enforcement/Homeland Security Investigations (ICE/HSI)
Customs and Border Protection (CBP)
Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA)

What Style Familiarity, if any, ought to come from the arrest techniques and hand-to-hand part of the training for these agencies?

If someone here is familiar enough with these agencies, I'd love to hear detail on how it varies by assignment, for example if Boarding Team Members, MSST or MSRT personnel in the USCG learn something more resembling a full martial art than welders or electronic specialists on a cutter.

*Considering how much of what police officers do during arrests looks extremely similar to Icelandic glíma (Belt/Jacket Wrestling in GURPS), I'd considering Sumo Wrestling as an option too. In game terms, it's a pretty good fit, including most of the grappling, sweeping and takedowns that are performed, but excluding various locks and limb wrenches that are disemphasised for legal/safety reasons.
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!

Last edited by Icelander; 03-27-2017 at 01:42 PM.
Icelander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2017, 01:46 PM   #2
DouglasCole
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
 
DouglasCole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
Default Re: LE/Police Hand-to-Hand, Arrest Techniques, Control Tactics or Use of Force

FWIW, I've actively trained Pass Limb, so having it be a technique works for me.
__________________
My blog:Gaming Ballistic, LLC
My Store: Gaming Ballistic on Shopify
My Patreon: Gaming Ballistic on Patreon
DouglasCole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2017, 01:56 PM   #3
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Re: Pass Limb technique

Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
FWIW, I've actively trained Pass Limb, so having it be a technique works for me.
Pass Limb is always at a basic -2 penalty, which gives us the default penalty for the technique. There is a further penalty based on posture, which can go up to an extra -4 or even -6.

Should Pass Limb be capped at the base grappling skill level or should it be improvable to skill+2 or skill+4 even without Technique Mastery?

That would be by the reasoning that many uses of it will have massive penalties (using Pass Limb while crouching is done at skill-8 if you have not improved Low Fighting). I'm pretty fine with allowing Pass Limb to go up to skill+4 without a specific Technique Mastery (which would allow crouching Pass Limb at skill-2 or unmodified skill if the character also has Low Fighting), but I might be persuaded that it is unbalancing.

Finally, is it an Average or Hard technique?
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!

Last edited by Icelander; 03-27-2017 at 02:00 PM.
Icelander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2017, 03:37 PM   #4
DouglasCole
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
 
DouglasCole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
Default Re: Pass Limb technique

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
Pass Limb is always at a basic -2 penalty, which gives us the default penalty for the technique. There is a further penalty based on posture, which can go up to an extra -4 or even -6.

Should Pass Limb be capped at the base grappling skill level or should it be improvable to skill+2 or skill+4 even without Technique Mastery?

That would be by the reasoning that many uses of it will have massive penalties (using Pass Limb while crouching is done at skill-8 if you have not improved Low Fighting). I'm pretty fine with allowing Pass Limb to go up to skill+4 without a specific Technique Mastery (which would allow crouching Pass Limb at skill-2 or unmodified skill if the character also has Low Fighting), but I might be persuaded that it is unbalancing.

Finally, is it an Average or Hard technique?
Average. This is a basic part of grappling.

So, I'm going to give two answers here:

1) Based on the precedent for arm lock, being able to move folks' limbs around from one place to another is a less demanding application. So Skill+4 seems OK, and up to Skill+6 with special training.

2) Arm Lock is a terrible precedent. Base skill, or Skill+4 with special training, seems best.
__________________
My blog:Gaming Ballistic, LLC
My Store: Gaming Ballistic on Shopify
My Patreon: Gaming Ballistic on Patreon
DouglasCole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2017, 04:08 PM   #5
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Re: Pass Limb technique

Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
Average. This is a basic part of grappling.
Coolio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
So, I'm going to give two answers here:

1) Based on the precedent for arm lock, being able to move folks' limbs around from one place to another is a less demanding application. So Skill+4 seems OK, and up to Skill+6 with special training.

2) Arm Lock is a terrible precedent. Base skill, or Skill+4 with special training, seems best.
Split the difference, skill+2?

I know it seems weird, but hear me out. That way, someone who has improved Low Fighting and Pass Limb to the maximum without Perks can use Pass Limb at full skill when trapping an arm under a knee by moving to a kneeling posture. As that specific transition seems to be about half of the arrest technique training my friend seems to do*, I'd rate that as pretty typical of someone good at arrest techniques.

If the technique could only be raised to skill+0, then unpenalised use of it would essentially be impossible, except during ground fighting and then only if the character has maxed out Ground Fighting. Pass Limb is always at an extra -2 or -4 for posture if not lying down.

By contrast, being able to raise it to skill+4 is too much without a Perk, as that would allow unpenalised use of Pass Limb while standing. I realise that this is possible with a few grips (standing on an arm, etc.), but it ought to be the sort of thing that only extremely specialised training generally covers, perfectly fitting the sort of thing Technique Mastery is supposed to represent.

*My best friend is an arrest technique instructor with the Metropolitian branch of the Icelandic Police. Sometimes, when drunk, he'll demonstrate on us. When we can get him to game with us, he'll sometimes demonstrate even while sober.
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Icelander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2017, 05:15 PM   #6
DouglasCole
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
 
DouglasCole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
Default Re: Pass Limb technique

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
I know it seems weird, but hear me out. That way, someone who has improved Low Fighting and Pass Limb to the maximum without Perks can use Pass Limb at full skill when trapping an arm under a knee by moving to a kneeling posture. As that specific transition seems to be about half of the arrest technique training my friend seems to do*, I'd rate that as pretty typical of someone good at arrest techniques.

If the technique could only be raised to skill+0, then unpenalised use of it would essentially be impossible, except during ground fighting and then only if the character has maxed out Ground Fighting. Pass Limb is always at an extra -2 or -4 for posture if not lying down.

By contrast, being able to raise it to skill+4 is too much without a Perk, as that would allow unpenalised use of Pass Limb while standing. I realise that this is possible with a few grips (standing on an arm, etc.), but it ought to be the sort of thing that only extremely specialised training generally covers, perfectly fitting the sort of thing Technique Mastery is supposed to represent.
All this seems pretty legit.
__________________
My blog:Gaming Ballistic, LLC
My Store: Gaming Ballistic on Shopify
My Patreon: Gaming Ballistic on Patreon
DouglasCole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2017, 05:39 PM   #7
jason taylor
 
jason taylor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
Default Re: LE/Police Hand-to-Hand, Arrest Techniques, Control Tactics or Use of Force

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post

Good training ought to include Diplomacy as a primary skill and it's at least an Optional skill for any variety of training in the Use of Force continuum that isn't being taught to actual soulless stormtroopers in a fictional setting.
[/SIZE]
Surely. I doubt Robespiere's men racked up as much of a body count during arrests as supposedly disciplined cops of a reasonably respectable state manage to do on tv.

It's not just for arrests, too. A number of times bystanders manage to do "odd" things that have innocent explanations and if everyone just stays calm, no one is hurt and good information might even be got.
__________________
"The navy could probably win a war without coffee but would prefer not to try"-Samuel Eliot Morrison

Last edited by jason taylor; 03-27-2017 at 09:52 PM.
jason taylor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2017, 06:24 PM   #8
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Arrest Techniques Style

Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
All this seems pretty legit.
What about this?

Arrest Techniques
__________________________________________________ ______________________________6 points


This represents the training police officers or other law enforcement personnel receive in arrest techniques, control tactics and the use of force continuum, excluding tactical shooting and the handling of firearms, which will usually be considered its own style. Teamwork is a vital part of this style and the Perk can be chosen as soon as the style has been learned, even if the character does not have 10 points in its skills.

This write-up is skewed toward the arrest techniques taught by the Icelandic police, as that is what I had the best access to, but will describe many typical British, Danish, German, Norwegian and USA training programs as well. Staff as an Optional skill is rare in Europe and the US, but more common in Asia, where the lathi stick and other long staves are common law enforcement tools. Shield is a primary skill for riot police and their batons are often long enough to use Broadsword skill.

Gunnar, my friend who is a serving police officer, member of a riot team and a certified arrest technique instructor, has visited and/or hosted police visitors who have from the above-mentioned countries, observing their training, trained with them and exchanged tips and tactics, in addition to some twelve years of experience here in Iceland.

Unfortunately, he hasn't trained with anyone who graduated from Quantico, FLETC or other federal training facility, so I can't be certain this fits for federal law enforcement agents in the US. His last experience with US police was with the Miami-Dade Police Department and this style would fit well enough for them. From what I've heard from other cops here who have gone on patrol or trained with US police, it also seems to work for several other Florida deparments, the NYPD and others.

In general, courses in proprietory systems like the SPEAR Fighting System, CQD or others do not mean that the graduate needs to take another Style Familiarity Perk, as most such courses are not long enough for that. SPEAR Fighting System, popular in the UK and allegedly having been taught at the FLETC and Quantico at some point in the 2000s and 2010s, is basically just adding a point in Brawling and maybe Judo, which are already Optional skills precisely because of a tendency to teach these skills in some training programs. The first point in an unarmed skill, particularly Brawling, doesn't actually require much time to gain, so it's fairly realistic that a good instructor can teach it in a course that takes less than a week. It's gaining higher levels of skill that takes a lot of time.

Skills: Diplomacy; Intimidation; Liquid Projector (Sprayer); Shortsword; Wrestling.
Techniques: Arm Lock (Shortsword or Wrestling); Armed Grapple (Shortsword); Change Position (Wrestling); Close Combat (Shortsword); Disarming; Force Posture Change (Wrestling); Handcuffing (Wrestling); Low Fighting; Pass Limb (Wrestling); Retain Weapon (Shortsword); Sweep (Wrestling); Targeted Attack (Liquid Projector (Sprayer) Jet/Face); Targeted Attack (Shortsword Swing/Arm); Targeted Attack (Shortsword Swing/Leg).
Perks: Grip Mastery (Baton); Licence; Off-Hand Weapon Training (Liquid Projector (Sprayer)); Passive Restraint Certification; Teamwork (Arrest Techniques); Technique Mastery (Change Position; Force Posture Change; Handcuffing; Pass Limb).


Optional Traits

Advantages: Combat Reflexes; Legal Enforcement Powers; Police Rank.
Disadvantages: Code of Honour (Police); Sense of Duty (Blue Line).
Skills: Body Language; Brawling; Broadsword; Fast-Draw (Sword); Holdout; Judo; Law (Police); Observation; Professional Skill (Law Enforcement); Search; Shield; Staff; Streetwise; Sumo Wrestling.
Techniques: Break Free (Wrestling); Choke Hold (Shortsword or Wrestling); Elbow Strike (Brawling); Escaping Parry (Wrestling).
Perks: Quick-Swap (Baton); Off-Hand Weapon Training (Shortsword); Shoves and Tackles (Shield or Staff); Style Adaptation (BJJ; Glíma (Belt/Jacket Wrestling)* or MMA); Sure-Footed (Any appropriate for typical duty environment).

*Replace with any culturally relevant style for other countries.

Anything missing? Something wrong? Suggestions for adding to it?
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!

Last edited by Icelander; 04-02-2017 at 02:05 PM.
Icelander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2017, 07:18 AM   #9
DouglasCole
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
 
DouglasCole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
Default Re: LE/Police Hand-to-Hand, Arrest Techniques, Control Tactics or Use of Force

Mind if I throw that down on my blog?
__________________
My blog:Gaming Ballistic, LLC
My Store: Gaming Ballistic on Shopify
My Patreon: Gaming Ballistic on Patreon
DouglasCole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2017, 09:00 AM   #10
Kalzazz
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Default Re: LE/Police Hand-to-Hand, Arrest Techniques, Control Tactics or Use of Force

There doesn't seem to be a skill listed for using the capture shield . . . Teamwork perk definitely is used with the capture shield as the guy in front is carrying it with his buddies behind him holding on adding weight in the initial rush

One of the uses for the baton is for an officer who isn't planning to grapple to have it out and ready to try and disarm the badguy (by hitting him in the arm or hand) if he somehow produces a weapon once the grappling starts . . . I noticed you included the Targeted Attack. Is there a way to represent being better at striking into close combat?

I would totally include sure footed slippery . . . by the time you already commit to sending a team in to physically grab someone, the place is quite possibly a horrible slippery mess of chemical agents and other stuff
Kalzazz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
law enforcement, martial arts, pass limb, police, style familiarity, teamwork

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.