Unkillable or equivalent HT increase?

Not · 08-21-2014, 09:42 PM

Is 50 or 100 points of Unkillable better than HT+5 or +10 respectively?

vierasmarius · 08-21-2014, 10:21 PM

Let's see... Unkillable 1 exempts the character from making Death Checks at -1xHP to -4xHP, and pushes automatic death from -5xHP to -10xHP. All other effects of injury remain - knockdown / stun, unconsciousness, bleeding, crippling (though it's not permanent unless the limb was dismembered) etc. Unless it's coupled with high HT, or a trait like Hard to Subdue or Berserk, the character is liable to pass out seconds after dropping below 0 HP.

Compare that to HT 15. It gives the character a 95% chance to succeed on Death Checks, giving them roughly 83% odds of surviving to -4xHP, with automatic death at -5xHP. In that respect they are effectively a little under half as durable. However, where they really shine is resisting the other effects of damage. They are likely to stay conscious for 14 seconds below 0 HP, which is well within the time span of many combat encounters. They also are far more likely to resist the stunning effects of Major Wounds. Add to that resistance to numerous poisons, hazards and afflictions, 50% more FP for exertion and Extra Effort, and the boost to HT-based skills. That looks like a pretty good deal to me.

In short, Unkillable 1 by itself produces a character who is unlikely to be killed by damage, but is still very vulnerable to other hazards. Even with Unkillable you'll want to invest in HT and similar traits, otherwise you'll be quite vulnerable to capture.

Ulzgoroth · 08-21-2014, 10:25 PM

Unkillable 2, of course, actually gives you something very like immunity to death. No amount of HT can even do a good imitation of that. Though, again, it doesn't give most of the benefits of high HT.

mr beer · 08-21-2014, 10:34 PM

Question needs to be more specific to answer IMO. As vierasmarius said, Unkillable is better at making you unkillable while HT provides broader benefits. You get what you pay for.

gilbertocarlos · 08-22-2014, 03:37 AM

That's like asking if ST20 or DX15 is better. There is no answer, that's why they cost the same amount of points.

Anders · 08-22-2014, 07:10 AM

Better for what purpose?

Not another shrubbery · 08-22-2014, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

Let's see... Unkillable 1 exempts the character from making Death Checks at -1xHP to -4xHP, and pushes automatic death from -5xHP to -10xHP. All other effects of injury remain - knockdown / stun, unconsciousness, bleeding, crippling (though it's not permanent unless the limb was dismembered) etc. Unless it's coupled with high HT, or a trait like Hard to Subdue or Berserk, the character is liable to pass out seconds after dropping below 0 HP.

Compare that to HT 15. It gives the character a 95% chance to succeed on Death Checks, giving them roughly 83% odds of surviving to -4xHP, with automatic death at -5xHP. In that respect they are effectively a little under half as durable. However, where they really shine is resisting the other effects of damage. They are likely to stay conscious for 14 seconds below 0 HP, which is well within the time span of many combat encounters. They also are far more likely to resist the stunning effects of Major Wounds. Add to that resistance to numerous poisons, hazards and afflictions, 50% more FP for exertion and Extra Effort, and the boost to HT-based skills. That looks like a pretty good deal to me.

In short, Unkillable 1 by itself produces a character who is unlikely to be killed by damage, but is still very vulnerable to other hazards. Even with Unkillable you'll want to invest in HT and similar traits, otherwise you'll be quite vulnerable to capture.

Nice work. I think what this shows is that Unk1 is much better for avoiding death, whereas HT 15 gives a lot more general utility.

Even if you didn't want to use them on Unk2, you should be able to find a lot of better ways to spend 100 points than on HT 20.

Not · 08-22-2014, 08:33 PM

What would an otherwise normal HT 20 character be like? He would look healthy and have extraordinary physical endurance, I guess. He'd be a good carouser. Not all that many skills linked to HT, are there...

Fred Brackin · 08-22-2014, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not

What would an otherwise normal HT 20 character be like? He would look healthy and have extraordinary physical endurance, I guess. He'd be a good carouser. Not all that many skills linked to HT, are there...

The one there are would make him a rock star though. Sex Appeal and Singing just for a start. Makes you wonder what Mick Jagger's HT might be. :)

mr beer · 08-22-2014, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not

What would an otherwise normal HT 20 character be like? He would look healthy and have extraordinary physical endurance, I guess. He'd be a good carouser. Not all that many skills linked to HT, are there...

Very good reactions and a fast runner (+2.5 Basic Speed).

08-21-2014, 09:42 PM	#1
Not Join Date: Feb 2013	Unkillable or equivalent HT increase? Is 50 or 100 points of Unkillable better than HT+5 or +10 respectively? __________________ Leave this space blank.

08-21-2014, 10:21 PM	#2
vierasmarius Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oregon	Re: Unkillable or equivalent HT increase? Let's see... Unkillable 1 exempts the character from making Death Checks at -1xHP to -4xHP, and pushes automatic death from -5xHP to -10xHP. All other effects of injury remain - knockdown / stun, unconsciousness, bleeding, crippling (though it's not permanent unless the limb was dismembered) etc. Unless it's coupled with high HT, or a trait like Hard to Subdue or Berserk, the character is liable to pass out seconds after dropping below 0 HP. Compare that to HT 15. It gives the character a 95% chance to succeed on Death Checks, giving them roughly 83% odds of surviving to -4xHP, with automatic death at -5xHP. In that respect they are effectively a little under half as durable. However, where they really shine is resisting the other effects of damage. They are likely to stay conscious for 14 seconds below 0 HP, which is well within the time span of many combat encounters. They also are far more likely to resist the stunning effects of Major Wounds. Add to that resistance to numerous poisons, hazards and afflictions, 50% more FP for exertion and Extra Effort, and the boost to HT-based skills. That looks like a pretty good deal to me. In short, Unkillable 1 by itself produces a character who is unlikely to be killed by damage, but is still very vulnerable to other hazards. Even with Unkillable you'll want to invest in HT and similar traits, otherwise you'll be quite vulnerable to capture.

08-21-2014, 10:25 PM	#3
Ulzgoroth Join Date: Jul 2008	Re: Unkillable or equivalent HT increase? Unkillable 2, of course, actually gives you something very like immunity to death. No amount of HT can even do a good imitation of that. Though, again, it doesn't give most of the benefits of high HT. __________________ I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident.

08-21-2014, 10:34 PM	#4
mr beer Join Date: Mar 2013	Re: Unkillable or equivalent HT increase? Question needs to be more specific to answer IMO. As vierasmarius said, Unkillable is better at making you unkillable while HT provides broader benefits. You get what you pay for.

08-22-2014, 03:37 AM	#5
gilbertocarlos Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Caxias do Sul, Brazil	Re: Unkillable or equivalent HT increase? That's like asking if ST20 or DX15 is better. There is no answer, that's why they cost the same amount of points. __________________ I've revised the Low Tech weapons table: http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=112532

08-22-2014, 07:10 AM	#6
Anders Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Gothenburg, Sweden	Re: Unkillable or equivalent HT increase? Better for what purpose? __________________ “When you arise in the morning think of what a privilege it is to be alive, to think, to enjoy, to love ...” Marcus Aurelius

08-22-2014, 08:33 PM	#8
Not Join Date: Feb 2013	Re: Unkillable or equivalent HT increase? What would an otherwise normal HT 20 character be like? He would look healthy and have extraordinary physical endurance, I guess. He'd be a good carouser. Not all that many skills linked to HT, are there... __________________ Leave this space blank.