Mental Stun spell recovery

[FrothFrenzy]

Hey people,

I have some questions regarding the Mental Stun spell. There are some similar threads out there but I haven't been able to find the exact information I need.

So the spell states it is first resisted by Will, and on subsequent turns the opponent has to make IQ rolls to recover.

1) Another thread states Combat Reflexes helps in resisting mental stun and therefore applies to this spell. But reading through the advantage, it states it applies to IQ rolls. Will is affected by IQ, but is it safe to assume it is treated as a separate attribute in this case? So does this mean Combat Reflexes helps only against subsequent rolls and not the initial one (the one where you resist the spell)?

2) Say I cast the spell on an animal. First there is the Will save, and the target has an ok chance to resist. But now it has to succeed on an IQ roll, and this is very improbable. Is there a rule somewhere that covers this or do we just assume IQ = Will in this case? Or is the success of the spell treated as a "you win" against animals?

[Gnomasz]

Originally Posted by FrothFrenzy

1) Another thread states Combat Reflexes helps in resisting mental stun and therefore applies to this spell. But reading through the advantage, it states it applies to IQ rolls. Will is affected by IQ, but is it safe to assume it is treated as a separate attribute in this case? So does this mean Combat Reflexes helps only against subsequent rolls and not the initial one (the one where you resist the spell)?

I don't know any official ruling, but I'd say Combat Reflexes helps only on the subsequent rolls to recover.

2) Say I cast the spell on an animal. First there is the Will save, and the target has an ok chance to resist. But now it has to succeed on an IQ roll, and this is very improbable. Is there a rule somewhere that covers this or do we just assume IQ = Will in this case? Or is the success of the spell treated as a "you win" against animals?

Mind Control spells, Mental Stun among them, don't work on animals at all (p. M133, in the introduction to the chapter, just below the flavor text). But a character with IQ 6 and no special advantages does roll against 6 and might be in a "you lose" situation here (that's what you get for taking -80 points in one trait).

[Bruno]

Will is a sub attribute, but the bonus is specifically to IQ for the condition of mental stun, which outside of the spell doesn't interact with Will at all.

The initial Will roll to resist the Mental Stun spell isn't a roll to resist becoming mentally stunned - it's to resist a spell - the effect of the spell is to automatically mentally stun you, do not pass Go, do not collect $200. Compare a fright check: Just because most of the Fright Check results start with "Stunned for X time" doesn't make a Fright Check a roll to avoid Mental Stun; Combat Reflexes gives you the +2 on Fright Checks, no the +2 and the +6. Once you fail a fright check, you are automagically stunned, no resisting it, and you only get to roll to recover after a set period of time (unless you rolled a 4 or 5 on the Fright Check table, which is about as good as it gets).


IQ 6 is indeed crippling levels of attribute penalty, comparable to Quadriplegic in point cost, and frankly in magnitude in my experience. With deliberately "stupid" characters I go first to mental disadvantages and only when I run out of appropriate choices do I go to reducing IQ.

If you buy up your sub attributes so they're at something reasonable (like Animals do) it's not -80 points any more, and it comes with a correspondingly lowered level of suck.

[FrothFrenzy]

Thank you both for the detailed answers!