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Old 07-29-2020, 08:51 AM   #1
hcobb
 
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Shield Rush is always pointless?

What's the point of using a shield rush to take up one of your actions in order to possibly get the other guy to use up one of his actions?

Let's take a typical starting fighter:
ST 9, DX 12, IQ 11, MA 10
Fine Rapier (1d+1+1), Small Shield (1+1), Three daggers (1d-1)
Acrobatics, Fencer, Knife, Shield, Shield Expertise, Swimming, Sword

And then he's up against a blob:
ST 14, DX 9(4), IQ 9, MA 6
Two Handed Sword (3d-1), Plate Armor (5), Toughness II (2)
Diving, Knife, Sex Appeal, Swimming, Sword, Toughness I, Toughness II

The fencer isn't going to get much damage against the blob unless he first does a shield rush then a shrewd blow.
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Old 07-29-2020, 11:44 AM   #2
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Shield Rush is always pointless?

Why are you so creative at coming up with ridiculous and impractical ideas, but so hard-pressed to think of practical ordinary ones?

Points include:

* Like Trip or unarmed combat throws, it knocks him down where he can be hit for +4 with no shield protection, not just for one action, but for long enough for you to follow up with an attack.

q.v. ITL p.104: "A figure which falls assumes the prone position involuntarily and may do nothing next turn except (either) stand up, kneel, or crawl, or attempt a spell." and p.102: "(g) STAND UP. Rise from prone, kneeling, or knocked-down position at the end of the combat phase ..."

* Or for people to jump into HTH with them.

* Or to run past them.

* Not to mention your allies.

* It also means you can run away from them.

* If they fall next to a pit, they might fall in.

* Sometimes you want to defeat someone or stop them attacking without injuring them.

* Or to buy time in general. Many, even experienced TFT players, think in terms of one-on-one one-turn exchanges, but sometimes it makes sense to delay combat if you can for one or more turns. For example, if your allies need time to finish doing something, arrive or maneuver, get up off the ground, ready their weapons, or to starve ST from wizards maintaining spells, etc.
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Old 07-30-2020, 12:50 PM   #3
Chris Rice
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
Default Re: Shield Rush is always pointless?

Well, if you drop or break your sword you may not want to waste time picking up or changing weapons (assuming you have a spare weapon). If you have a shield you can still attack straight away.
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Old 07-30-2020, 02:16 PM   #4
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Shield Rush is always pointless?

It's a good tactic against someone in heavy armor; anyone who is serious about protection can have 6-10 points of armor without any magic items or other fancy nonsense, meaning you might not have a normal attack that can be expected to hurt them. Sitting them down for a couple of turns is one way to start moving the fight in your favor.
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Old 08-02-2020, 08:39 AM   #5
Anders
 
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Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Default Re: Shield Rush is always pointless?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
What's the point of using a shield rush to take up one of your actions in order to possibly get the other guy to use up one of his actions?
It can be very nice if they stand close to a steep cliff.
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Old 08-02-2020, 09:06 AM   #6
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Shield Rush is always pointless?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
* Or to run past them.
If you have a higher DX you can run away without risk.

Disengage over and over again until you win initiative.
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Old 08-02-2020, 09:21 AM   #7
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Shield Rush is always pointless?

Or to break up an enemy line or other formation you don't like the look of. That's probably closest to the real tactical use of a shield rush (at least, in SCA. And football.)
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Old 08-02-2020, 10:55 PM   #8
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Shield Rush is always pointless?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
If you have a higher DX you can run away without risk.

Disengage over and over again until you win initiative.
Unless you're cornered, or they have a spear, or any of various other situations apply.

As usual, I'll take your change of subject without addressing the counterpoints to mean you concede your original argument.
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Old 08-03-2020, 04:35 PM   #9
John.A.Hanna
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Default Re: Shield Rush is always pointless?

Shield Rush is a rarely used option; I do not recall ever seeing anyone successfully Shield Rush anyone else and maybe saw 1 GM use it once before abandoning it as a waste of action.

The strong ones don't generally use it because they rarely make their DX rolls and the weak ones don't generally use it because their opponents are almost always stronger and save easily.

I concur there may be uses for it, as mentioned above, however they are more situational than frequent.

Perhaps using Shield Rush against a Mollie (low ST Goblin wizard) would be the only instance where it would be practical.

Or, consider an Octopus using Shield Rush...
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Old 08-03-2020, 05:10 PM   #10
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Shield Rush is always pointless?

Compare with Lasso or Whip where the enemy gets no saving throw and the one quarter chance (half to hit times half to unsave) of a shield rush doing anything is rather poor.
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