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Old 05-15-2020, 07:35 AM   #11
tomc
 
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Default Re: Experience Points

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Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip View Post
I agree with Shostak that the new XP system is very disheartening.

<snip>

Until this gets fixed, be generous with granting XP. It's a game so make your players happy.
You can still play the old way. It's not like the rules need to be standardized for international competition or anything. I'm sure SJ and Co. would be the first to tell you to do what's fun for you.

I still do 1XP per hit delivered, and 1XP per DX of foe for the finishing blow.
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Old 05-15-2020, 08:27 AM   #12
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Default Re: Experience Points

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Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip View Post
I agree with Shostak that the new XP system is very disheartening.
To clarify, I don't so much think that the XP system is disheartening so much as players having to wait too long to see their characters progress is. This is true of any system in which GMs award points subjectively (and believe me, I'm not suggesting that I'd like to see hard rules for XP like: killing a gargoyle+30 XP, finding a magic item=20 XP, etc.). It is really up to the GM to read the players and to come up with ways to develop their character. There can be narrative ways to do this, too, like letting a wizard climb in the guild ranks, or a soldier be promoted.

Last edited by Shostak; 07-23-2020 at 05:08 PM. Reason: Typos
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Old 05-15-2020, 10:29 PM   #13
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Default Re: Experience Points

Also, we used to get XP for making die rolls or 4 dice or more.

I like the idea that XP is no longer awarded in a way that requires lots of bookkeeping. That was a grind. But now the slow advancement is another type or grind.

In particular I really hate paying for skills/spells. Both their cost (500 XP/point is too high) and the fact that you are required to do it separately from increasing your IQ. A beginning player spends 100 XP to increase IQ, then has to spend 500 XP more to get that next spell. It does not seem proportionate.

And yes someone said, use your own house rules. Well you do not always play in your own game world and thus you will be subject to the rules the other GM likes.
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Old 05-15-2020, 10:43 PM   #14
Axly Suregrip
 
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Default Re: Experience Points

One more thought. The old system of XP per damage and kills did drive certain behavior. For better or worse. Behavior based on a driven motive does push the heroes into more interesting situations. Thus actions to gain XP greedily sought. (These behaviors could appear bad: one player quickly finishing everyone's kill; or they were good: a player allowing another player's hero to finish his foe. And sometimes that led to the foe escaping. All these situations are relatable and add to the game's fun and excitement)

XP for time played, say 100 XP for 2 hours of play time, gets you participation but not much drive.

Yes GMs are encouraged to give more for acts. Not every GM is good or creative in finding these. If done so and done well, it can drive action in the players. It will need to be consistent so as to be reliable and expected by the players. If you want players to be aggressive, then make sure every hero that takes risks gets double XP. It would also be good to tell the players up front which behaviors will yield bonus XP.

Or expect the games to be slow careful affairs.
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Old 05-16-2020, 05:08 PM   #15
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Default Re: Experience Points

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Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip View Post
In particular I really hate paying for skills/spells. Both their cost (500 XP/point is too high) and the fact that you are required to do it separately from increasing your IQ. A beginning player spends 100 XP to increase IQ, then has to spend 500 XP more to get that next spell. It does not seem proportionate.
Having voiced my active dislike for any system of buying talents and spells with XP, I just made a hilariously embarrassing discovery! I was dusting off an old manuscript for an RPG I started writing but left unfinished 25 years ago....

And in several places I'd written in Skill (talent) points could be purchased with experience points, and used for adding new skills or spells.

I must now fall on my own red pencil.
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Old 05-16-2020, 08:18 PM   #16
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Default Re: Experience Points

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Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck View Post
Having voiced my active dislike for any system of buying talents and spells with XP...
I was in the same place at first, but it does add the potential for more character variety which is a good thing IMO. For a system w/o class or level-based abilities, using XP as 'currency' for talents and spells also makes alot of sense. The problem, as others have pointed out (myself included) and as Henry illustrates above, is that current LE cost structure reinforces a specific 'gamey' approach to optimizing the character's progression.

I won't delve into solutions here, since this isn't in the houserule forum, but I will say that I don't think the classic TFT design (which I really like) is compatible with the Legacy approach. We tried playtesting a hybrid where IQ increases still granted talents (or partial talents) as did the direct expenditure of XP, but it felt a bit off and didn't seem to scale well as the characters advanced.
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Old 05-16-2020, 09:25 PM   #17
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Default Re: Experience Points

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Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
The current system seems to suggest:
  1. Buy as much IQ as you can at 32 attributes.
  2. Plow the first 700 XP into +4 DX
  3. A memory point is less expensive than the 37 attribute so consider adding abilities at this point.
Perhaps, if you want to play that one type of character, but not if you want to wield a battleaxe or play any number of other characters.
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Old 05-17-2020, 12:21 PM   #18
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Default Re: Experience Points

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Master Fencer does more damage than a battleaxe.

Neo-TFT is a ST dumping game where the dumb brutes are easy targets for the swift and crafty PCs.
A 3-point Wizard's Wrath does more damage than a battleaxe, too. But the fact remains that if you want to play a character who wields a battleaxe, that's the character that you make, and you don't use ST as a dump stat.
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Old 05-17-2020, 01:07 PM   #19
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Default Re: Experience Points

A world where most of the characters are optimized would be very different from one where the average adventurer was just average.

I don't know if it would be better or worse, but it would be different. More cinematic maybe?
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Old 05-17-2020, 09:58 PM   #20
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Default Re: Experience Points

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To clarify, I don't so much think that the XP system is disheartening so much as players having to wait to long to see their characters progress.
Yes. I was trying to say I found how long it takes to advance is too long.
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