Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > The Fantasy Trip

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-28-2018, 02:35 PM   #1
David L Pulver
AlienAbductee
 
David L Pulver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: In the UFO
Default Animals and Perception

In GURPS a problem arose that IQ rolls were used for sensing things, but animals, usually with low IQs, had difficulty noticing things unless loaded down with advantages. 4e fixed this with a separate Perception statistic, but at some expense in complexity.

TFT retains low IQs for animals. In the original edition it generally avoided making an IQ roll a surrogate for simple NOTICING of a sound or smell, instead reserving it for more complex things, such as identifying something as worth noticing. An IQ 6 deer fails a roll to spot a trap or see an illusion because it doesn't understand what a trap or illusion _is_ rather than because it doesn't sense the trap itself.

I think the current edition should make sure this distinction is maintained. It might be important to say that IQ rolls don't govern listening, etc. - instead you use the rules for Noise (which measure distances in hexes).

I mention this because GURPS has so established the use of IQ for sense rolls that people may unconsciously apply the same to TFT, and if we start doing that we'll end up needing all sorts of special rules boosting IQ for animals in these circumstances!
__________________
Is love like the bittersweet taste of marmalade on burnt toast?
David L Pulver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2018, 02:45 PM   #2
Tenex
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Animals and Perception

Quote:
Originally Posted by David L Pulver View Post
An IQ 6 deer fails a roll to spot a trap or see an illusion because it doesn't understand what a trap or illusion _is_ rather than because it doesn't sense the trap itself.
I'm not sure I agree with that. It takes a bit of searching because they aren't common videos, but there are videos of animals stealing bait from traps. As a non-expert fisherman I have experienced great frustration at low IQ fish stealing bait off a hook. Apparently they know what a hook is. Anyone who has ever set a mousetrap has experienced wily mice stealing the bait.

Who knows how a real animal would perceive a real illusion. Make up whatever rule you want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David L Pulver View Post
TFT retains low IQs for animals. In the original edition it generally avoided making an IQ roll a surrogate for simple NOTICING of a sound or smell, instead reserving it for more complex things, such as identifying something as worth noticing.
Perhaps, just as an expedient way of addressing this in-game, you could roll against the animals DX rather than IQ.
Tenex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2018, 02:50 PM   #3
Shadekeep
 
Shadekeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Aerlith
Default Re: Animals and Perception

That sounds like a reasonable interpretation. And in cases where the animal does need to make a perception roll, the GM should be able to modify it appropriately. For example, a bloodhound might get a reduced roll of 2D6 IQ when tracking someone hidden, unless the person in question has taken steps to conceal their scent. These might be better spelled out as specific animal "talents" related to the species in question to make GM'ing more consistent, and so players know what to prepare against.
Shadekeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2018, 02:59 PM   #4
Terquem
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Idaho Falls
Default Re: Animals and Perception

People can sneak up on animals


I say, stop giving animals unusually low IQ statistics (why would you do that anyway)

For regular animals, dogs, cats, horses and such, stay within 7 to 11

for magical animals, slimes and oozes, go crazy and assign them any IQ you want them to have

I once had to deal with an IQ12 slime, it outsmarted me every step of the way.
Terquem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2018, 03:28 PM   #5
Chris Rice
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
Default Re: Animals and Perception

Or use the animals DX as they're working more from senses and instincts than what we would think of as "intelligence."
Chris Rice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2018, 03:43 PM   #6
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Animals and Perception

This is a tricky one and doesn't have a simple answer. I'd be interested to hear what the designer has to say...
larsdangly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2018, 05:20 PM   #7
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Animals and Perception

The whole idea of rolling vs IQ to detect something should be junked. The role of IQ is understanding weird things, not raw detection power.
__________________
My GURPS site and Blog.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2018, 06:42 PM   #8
tomc
 
tomc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Carrboro, NC
Default Re: Animals and Perception

Quote:
Originally Posted by David L Pulver View Post
In GURPS a problem arose that IQ rolls were used for sensing things, but animals, usually with low IQs, had difficulty noticing things unless loaded down with advantages.
You don't have to have a stat, just use a value that makes sense for the species. Wolves catch your scent on a 14 or less. Deer hear you coming on a 13 or less. (Though this one may be better played with the hunter rolling on his IQ or DX to avoid making noise.) A hawk would spot you on a 15 or less because it sees well, not because it's smart.
__________________
OgreMap2

Freedom of Speech is not Freedom of Podium
tomc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2018, 07:01 PM   #9
David Bofinger
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Sydney, Australia
Default Re: Animals and Perception

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomc View Post
You don't have to have a stat, just use a value that makes sense for the species. Wolves catch your scent on a 14 or less. Deer hear you coming on a 13 or less. (Though this one may be better played with the hunter rolling on his IQ or DX to avoid making noise.) A hawk would spot you on a 15 or less because it sees well, not because it's smart.
You're making a distinction between:
  1. Creating a new attribute called Perception and giving it to animals.
  2. For each animal saying what it needs to roll to sense things.
Seems to me these are basically the same, except the first is a little cleaner and more TFT-like.
David Bofinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2018, 07:43 PM   #10
tomc
 
tomc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Carrboro, NC
Default Re: Animals and Perception

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bofinger View Post
You're making a distinction between:
  1. Creating a new attribute called Perception and giving it to animals.
  2. For each animal saying what it needs to roll to sense things.
Seems to me these are basically the same, except the first is a little cleaner and more TFT-like.
Well, if you're going to roll dice you need a number to roll against. The GM could just rule success or failure, but that's not very satisfying. I'd pull a number off the top of my head, factoring in species, conditions, weather, anything I thought was relevant, but it was still a guess, and sometimes a committed player could argue it up or down a point or two.
Not always consistent, but it worked well enough for our play style, and we didn't have to write any rules. (A plus for us, a flaw for others, I'm sure.)
__________________
OgreMap2

Freedom of Speech is not Freedom of Podium
tomc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.