What do wizards do in your campaign?

[The Wyzard]

Something that interests me is the activities of non-adventuring wizards. Like, why does a person *become* a wizard? TFT spells tend to have very short lifespans, so spending a significant amount of your life doing arcane stuff in order to eventually learn to turn your skin hard for probably less than a minute doesn't seem like the most practical pursuit. It's not like a D&D wizard, where you might eventually be able to do economically productive things other than fighting monsters.

So, what's the theory? Do we just presume there is a whole body of "practical magic" that non-adventuring wizards learn and make their living doing?

Or is the primary business of wizards in the manufacture of useful magical items for the wealthy? Because granted, a large enough team of accomplished magicians and their apprentices can produce things that a king would pay a king's ransom for! (I think this would imply the existence of, well, Wizard Firms, perhaps similar to a modern-day law firm, with partners and associates and paralegal apprentices with a lot of ST and the Aid spell. I think there's probably an economy of scale for lab work and apprentices.)

Or do entities such as aristocratic courts make certain to have a wizard on staff not because they want him to lightning bolt someone, but because it's dangerous to *not* have a powerful court wizard there. (I saw an argument once that Battleships, for example, are quite useful militarily even if they aren't used, because the fact that you *have* battleships changes what your adversaries are comfortable doing. That's an interestingly subtle argument even if it's wrong, and I think it applies to a lot of standing defensive strategies. You have a court wizard to keep your enemies from doing the sort of things that are dangerous or ineffective if there is a court wizard to oppose them.)

Obviously the PCs are adventurers, but in my general experience, smart people with lots of professional training tend to be reticent to put themselves into harm's way. This may be because if you are interested in being in harm's way, there are shorter and easier routes to get there than years of study over dusty books. Like, hiring five sturdy guys with arbalests is probably cheaper than an expert wizard and damn near as effective for most tasks involving bloodshed. So the wizard needs to be doing something that pays commensurate with his level of training and expertise, but that can't be adequately handled by a handful of men-at-arms.

Also, why isn't there some kind of Arcane Lore talent that wizards can learn?

[JLV]

The short answer would be; "whatever they want!" but I'm almost certain you're not interested in me joking around. ;-)

So here's what I think.

1) Wizards are NOT common. Powerful Wizards are even less so. Because of that, the skill set is rare, highly valued by the powerful, and greatly feared by the "unpowerful" -- who, after all, don't really understand what these people are doing and can only see the spectacular (and sometimes spectacularly awful) results of their mumbling and hand-waving. As a result, they would tend not to want them as neighbors -- "Meddle not in the affairs of Wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger."

2) Due to their rarity, and due to the competition between them for artifacts, scrolls, books and the like, they tend not to be terribly cooperative with one another, outside of their own guilds, and even then I suspect that most of their time and effort is spent in politicking within the guild for position and for/against outside friends/enemies rather than going into industrial-sized magical production factories. Besides, anything like that they created they would almost certainly choose to retain for their own use.

3) It's one reason I like the concept of the "hedge witch" -- a very UNpowerful Wizard type who only has a couple of useful spells to support the community he/she lives in ("practical" magic versus "combat" magic, though he/she may know something like Magic Fist simply for self-protection). The hedge witch character would normally be an NPC, and would spend the vast majority of their time and effort helping animals and people in their community, collecting herbs and other components for potions (usually healing or something similar; not normally for poisons or things of that nature), and so on.

In short, none of the powerful ones would have the time or inclination to get too involved in bettering all mankind (or elfkind, or whatever) -- they're too busy learning, researching, creating and protecting their own interests. The few who DO go out adventuring (and four PC Wizards might well represent the total number of Wizards doing so in a VAST area), are probably young, still learning the ropes, and looking to build a reputation (as well as pick up any artifacts, scrolls, grimoires, and the like that they can along the way). Some might occasionally be motivated by the desire to "do good," but even those will be like the people that moved to Hawaii back in the late 1800s -- "they came to do good, and did very well indeed," was the line I heard out in the islands on THAT topic! Put another way, they might be motivated by a desire to help others or fight evil, but eventually they'll get enough stuff and reputation that they can settle down in a nice tower somewhere and start studying the stuff they are REALLY interested in -- even if it's just a silly question like "Why are mountains tall?"

Of course, that's just MY interpretation (and is how I explain the fact that the world is pretty much at a late Medieval/Early Renaissance level of technology and not overrun with magical cars and washing machines). Naturally, YMMV -- and probably should, given that this explanation is for my own unique vision of Cidri.

Originally Posted by The Wyzard

Or do entities such as aristocratic courts make certain to have a wizard on staff not because they want him to lightning bolt someone, but because it's dangerous to *not* have a powerful court wizard there. (I saw an argument once that Battleships, for example, are quite useful militarily even if they aren't used, because the fact that you *have* battleships changes what your adversaries are comfortable doing. That's an interestingly subtle argument even if it's wrong, and I think it applies to a lot of standing defensive strategies. You have a court wizard to keep your enemies from doing the sort of things that are dangerous or ineffective if there is a court wizard to oppose them.)

That's the theory behind Mutual Assured Destruction, as well. So a court wizard is kind of like manufacturing your own nukes and ICBMs -- no one will mess with you because they can't afford the consequences -- Magical MAD. Seems reasonable to me, actually...it's the way even otherwise benign but powerful governments and nation states think.

Originally Posted by The Wyzard

Also, why isn't there some kind of Arcane Lore talent that wizards can learn?

That's a good idea! I may have to make one up. ;-)

[The Wyzard]

Originally Posted by JLV

That's a good idea! I may have to make one up. ;-)

Well, it's an oddity. In a lot of RPGs, Wizards or Mages are smart, and so they can often be good at knowing lore of various kinds. In TFT, that stuff (beyond Literacy) tends to be a talent, so it's too IQ-expensive for even a smart wizard.

So your hedge-witch is giving up a LOT of spells to know stuff about herbs and healing or whatever, and someone pointed out to me the other day that non-Wizards get -4 DX to cast spells, so I'd guess that your healer/herbalist with a few spells might have some trouble pulling them off.

I dunno. The rough outline of my thesis is that TFT magic is very limited in comparison to other RPGs, and so finding practical uses for it is an interesting challenge.

I don't know if there's a Dowsing spell, but there should be. Also, if you look at real-world theories of demonology (which I am very far from admitting ever actually worked), many demons were noted for their ability to help the magician find buried treasure. There was actually a board game about this!

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3626/demons

It might be interesting to have a spell which does such a thing - sort of like a treasure detection power, common in RPGs, except large-scale and imprecise. It'll tell you where there is a dungeon full of treasure, but getting it out is of course no easier than any other dungeon. And it's a fun plot hook.

"No, guys, seriously, these evil spirits are telling me the truth! There is absolutely a bunch of treasure under the legendary Bloodmurder Island, you know the one? It's in the middle of that river delta and everyone says it's cursed?"

[JLV]

Yeah, I remember Demons -- it was a fun game. Man, I miss the old SPI!!

And that's another good idea on the plot hooks thing. I think I'm just going to start printing out all your suggestions, keep them in a book, and just let my players assume I'm a genius when I trot your ideas out! ;-)

[Skarg]

This is a good question, but I don't see the same level of mystery that you seem to. Sure there are mainly-combat spells, but there are also others.

Originally Posted by The Wyzard

Like, why does a person *become* a wizard?

I think it's like other gifts or geniuses or orientations or mental organizations that real people have in our world about real things. Probably all people have some sort of genius, even if many don't discover and/or develop theirs. So to me, the 1/200 of people who are wizards are just those who are gifted and organized to learn magic, and probably they are therefore drawn to do so, regardless of any sort of practical analytical decision based on reasons. But even for analytical life-path decisions, I think there would be reasons to do so.

I also think wizards are different and each has their own personal reasons, which also influences which spells they learn and what they choose to do with them and with their time and energy and other resources.

Originally Posted by The Wyzard

TFT spells tend to have very short lifespans, so spending a significant amount of your life doing arcane stuff in order to eventually learn to turn your skin hard for probably less than a minute doesn't seem like the most practical pursuit. It's not like a D&D wizard, where you might eventually be able to do economically productive things other than fighting monsters.

Stone Flesh is great for protecting yourself or others from physical injury. Wizards not interested in that learn other spells. There are quite a few very useful ones for other purposes, it seems to me. And it also seems to me that wizards tend to be interested in magic itself. Probably more than they tend to be interested in economic production, as it seems to me the nature of magic certainly has a sort of non-materialistic focus. Why do painters paint? Why to gymnasts learn to prance about in specific ways?

But (going through the list) for the materialistic, practical, economically-interested, non-violent, law-abiding wizard, there are such spells as:

Image / Illusion
Detect Magic
Light
Aid
Reveal Magic
Fire
Detect Life
Darkness
Dark Vision
Speed Movement
Summon Myrmidon / Bear / Gargoyle / Dragon (all very useful for physical tasks, especially dangerous ones requiring strength, flying...)
Ward
Trailtwister
Far Vision
Detect Enemies
Lock/Knock
Sleep (anyone suffering from insomnia?)
Control Animal
Create Wall
Silent Movement
Persuasiveness
Reveal/Conceal

Ok, I'm only up to IQ 11. Seems to me there are many non-combat/adventure applications for those spells, and there are many more spells and enchantments, and you can also research more spells to do other things.

Even without much imagination, you could certainly be very valuable as a locksmith of sorts, security technician, and in a workforce or engineering crew (ST 30 bear, or at IQ 13+, flying tasks). Persuasiveness alone is incredibly powerful (compared to not having any magic) for all social situations, and can be used on other people who may be expert in social skills. Aid is so powerful in some applications it almost breaks the whole game system, especially if you have a team of people with Aid, or if someone adds a Healing spell to the game that has no limits on use other than fatigue. Etc.

Originally Posted by The Wyzard

Do we just presume there is a whole body of "practical magic" that non-adventuring wizards learn and make their living doing?

No, because I see all the many uses of the listed spells. And, I tend to think wizards tend to be interested in magic itself as much as they are interested in practical task-accomplishment. However I also see the section on researching new spells, and I appreciate any ideas I like and want to exist for practical non-adventuring spells too.

Originally Posted by The Wyzard

Or is the primary business of wizards in the manufacture of useful magical items for the wealthy?

No, though some wealthy power-oriented people would like it if they were and may use and/or trade their power to get wizards to do more of that than wizards might otherwise be inclined to do.

I think there are various types of interests and occupations for wizards, and some of them do make magic items for the wealthy and powerful. In fact, I think most magic items that get made, are made either for the wealthy and powerful, or for the wizards making them, or for the guild, or in exchange for major gifts of power, deeds, wealth or other magic. And that's why I don't think magic items tend to be often be available for sale at list prices unless they are things not many people who can afford them have an immediate application for.

Originally Posted by The Wyzard

Because granted, a large enough team of accomplished magicians and their apprentices can produce things that a king would pay a king's ransom for! (I think this would imply the existence of, well, Wizard Firms, perhaps similar to a modern-day law firm, with partners and associates and paralegal apprentices with a lot of ST and the Aid spell. I think there's probably an economy of scale for lab work and apprentices.)

Well yes, there are Wizards Guilds, and/or state wizardly organizations.

I think there are always some sorts of power dynamics and tension between what wizards themselves want to do, how many wizards exist at what power/learning levels, power/wealth of individuals and groups of various types (wizards, guilds & guildmasters, aristocracy, militaries, merchants, arch criminals, other wealthy people) who want wizards to be doing one thing or another, economic factors, safety factors, power struggle situations, etc.

If 1/200 is born a wizard, but only some small fraction of those becomes particularly powerful, and wizards tend to be interested in magic at least as much as they are interested in serving others, and as they become more capable they become more powerful and able to take independent action, and become more valuable to more people, and are also generally rather smart... what seems mainly clear to me is that I don't see all powerful wizards being generally controllable by others, even a ubiquitous powerful wizards guild with central authority.

Originally Posted by The Wyzard

Or do entities such as aristocratic courts make certain to have a wizard on staff not because they want him to lightning bolt someone, but because it's dangerous to *not* have a powerful court wizard there. (I saw an argument once that Battleships, for example, are quite useful militarily even if they aren't used, because the fact that you *have* battleships changes what your adversaries are comfortable doing.

It's not a matter of "or", but yes, that too. Certain powerful magics can be very hard to cope with or deter unless you have some powerful wizards of your own.

I think in order to run a self-consistent campaign with powerful magic, the GM would be well-advised to consider what powerful spells are known and how many wizards know them and what they may be doing with them. It helps to have ideas about that before players start getting creative, if you want to be able to fairly and consistently answer what happens when a PC (for just one example) uses (or tries to hire someone to use) Astral Projection or a Crystal Ball and goes to spy on a royal castle, or treasury, or a guild headquarters. And if they can, who else does that, and how often, and at what point might someone do that to the PCs?

Originally Posted by The Wyzard

Obviously the PCs are adventurers, but in my general experience, smart people with lots of professional training tend to be reticent to put themselves into harm's way. This may be because if you are interested in being in harm's way, there are shorter and easier routes to get there than years of study over dusty books.

Yes, I tend to think that most wizards (and some PCs) are not adventurers, or even if they are, they tend to be smart enough to look for smart solutions before risking their own lives needlessly.

The most common NPC wizard mentality I tend to expect is someone whose main goals involve being able to study magic and improve their knowledge and abilities and work on their pet projects. When they're concerned with other people wanting them to do things, or economic needs, I think they probably tend to see those as unfortunate circumstances more than primary motivations.

Originally Posted by The Wyzard

Like, hiring five sturdy guys with arbalests is probably cheaper than an expert wizard and damn near as effective for most tasks involving bloodshed. So the wizard needs to be doing something that pays commensurate with his level of training and expertise, but that can't be adequately handled by a handful of men-at-arms.

Sure, though I don't tend to look at it as a matter of wizards needing "to be doing something that pays" a certain amount, as much as given that there are wizards with X abilities and others with Y abilities, what abilities will wizards choose to offer as services and how much will they want to do them. Personal risk is certainly a major factor, except for wizards who are action junkies (of which no doubt there are some, though they don't tend to live very long).

Originally Posted by The Wyzard

Also, why isn't there some kind of Arcane Lore talent that wizards can learn?

Maybe because many wizards would want it but because of how TFT character systems tend to work, it would compete with spell learning, and wizardly arcane ability is mainly measured by their IQ score? But yeah, it seems like that would tend to be a big part of what many wizards do... I just think it sort of ends up being working to increase their wizard-IQ (and their wizard-DX and wizard-ST (and now Staff level), and researching new spells and/or better versions of existing spells, making masterpiece magic items, writing and reading books on magical theory, and trying experiments with existing spells.

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by The Wyzard

It might be interesting to have a spell which does such a thing - sort of like a treasure detection power, common in RPGs, except large-scale and imprecise. It'll tell you where there is a dungeon full of treasure, but getting it out is of course no easier than any other dungeon. And it's a fun plot hook.

Well there is Treasure-Smelling Potion... and the rather-annoyingly-powerful/useful spell Trance, and Crystal Balls (both of which I tend to nerf heavily), and Astral Projection, and sending images around as scouts...

[zot]

Originally Posted by Skarg

Well there is Treasure-Smelling Potion... and the rather-annoyingly-powerful/useful spell Trance, and Crystal Balls (both of which I tend to nerf heavily), and Astral Projection, and sending images around as scouts...

Yes, mosquito images and illusions are great for getting into rooms with closed doors, especially if they have locks that open from both sides...

[Dave Crowell]

Image alone could make someone a tidy living as an entertainer.

I do expect that there are plenty of non-adventurous spells known to wizards that aren't in the published game. Added to the non-adventuring uses to which the published spells can be put I think there is plenty to keep wizards busy. As well as magical study for its own sake.

[luguvalium]

A day in the life of a town wizard:

Is this magical?

No

Is this magical?

No

Is *this* magical?

[The Wyzard]

You know, I may have realized my error. I think images/illusions have a longer duration than I recalled they do.

Originally Posted by luguvalium

A day in the life of a town wizard:

Is this magical?

No

Is this magical?

No

Is *this* magical?

Ha!