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Old 12-15-2014, 09:11 AM   #131
roguebfl
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Default Re: Unarmed vs. Knife

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
Yay, I found the ruling on Close Combat and Facing:

So stepping into the back of someone through the Side-Back hex is indeed an option. No need for risky AoA.
Yes but I still allow the runaround defence rather that no defence from behind if entering from the back hex results from a round around attack.

Also you not in Close Combat until you start your turn in the hex so if step into their hex the still defend agasint any attack or grapples as if you were at range 1 that turn.
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Old 12-15-2014, 09:18 AM   #132
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Default Re: Unarmed vs. Knife

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Yes but I still allow the runaround defence rather that no defence from behind if entering from the back hex results from a round around attack.
Absolutely true. But -2 is still good, particularly against someone with skill 10-12.

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Also you not in Close Combat until you start your turn in the hex so if step into their hex the still defend agasint any attack or grapples as if you were at range 1 that turn.
Largely irrelevant, as knives are either C,1 or C anyway. The one who steps into CC still is allowed to use all the CC-only attacks.
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Old 12-15-2014, 11:38 AM   #133
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Default Re: Unarmed vs. Knife

And another Krommquote, this time on face-changing and stepping:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

For most manoeuvres which includes a Step and an Attack of some kind, is it legal to split the components like this:
  • Move one hex.
  • Perform the Attack (strike, shot, feint etc.).
  • Change facing to whatever direction.
?
I had the impression that changing facing is considered part of the Step, and cannot be done separately from the hex-movement (but can replace the movement if desired), but I'm not sure I've the right impression.
The facing change is part of the movement, so it has to be at the same time – it can't be broken up. As p. B363 says:
  • A "step" is movement up to 1/10 your Move, minimum 1 yard, in any direction, a change of facing (for instance, to turn around), or both.
  • You can perform your step before or after the rest of the maneuver.
So the step is the movement and facing change taken together, and all of it must come before or after the maneuver.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

For those who have a Step of multiple hexes, or who enjoy multiple hexes of movement from doubled Step on a Committed Attack, how many Facing-Changes are there available:
(a) only one facing change throughout the manoeuvre, or (b) only one free arbitrary facing change, but extra facing-changes to face the direction the character steps into for each hex of movement (like on a Move or AoA) or (c) one free arbitrary facing-change per hex of movement?
Option (b), though you'll need a step of 3+ yards for it to be really useful.
So it seems that MLangsdorf's tactic is viable.
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Old 12-15-2014, 12:41 PM   #134
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Default Re: Unarmed vs. Knife

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
And another Krommquote, this time on face-changing and stepping:

So it seems that MLangsdorf's tactic is viable.
Is this fresh? Because while it's somewhat off the point of the statement, the phrasing appears to contradict the thing about being free to perform your Maneuver's action in the middle of a multi-yard step.
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Old 12-15-2014, 12:45 PM   #135
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Default Re: Unarmed vs. Knife

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Is this fresh? Because while it's somewhat off the point of the statement, the phrasing appears to contradict the thing about being free to perform your Maneuver's action in the middle of a multi-yard step.
Fresh as in, 48h or fresher.

That being said, a multi-yard step means you move both before and after the attack, but not that you can spend all your movement, attack, and then turn. Turning is part of movement, but can be tagged at the beginning or the end of movement.
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Old 12-15-2014, 12:58 PM   #136
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Default Re: Unarmed vs. Knife

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
Fresh as in, 48h or fresher.

That being said, a multi-yard step means you move both before and after the attack, but not that you can spend all your movement, attack, and then turn. Turning is part of movement, but can be tagged at the beginning or the end of movement.
Yeah, that's not an unsound way to break it down, it's just that "all of it must come before or after the maneuver"...is not something I would say if that was what I meant.


Hmm. Also, does the free turn definitely have to be at the beginning or end, not the middle? Probably should require that, having the free turn in the middle could be a bit too useful.
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Old 12-15-2014, 01:05 PM   #137
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Default Re: Unarmed vs. Knife

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
Yeah, that's not an unsound way to break it down, it's just that "all of it must come before or after the maneuver"...is not something I would say if that was what I meant.


Hmm. Also, does the free turn definitely have to be at the beginning or end, not the middle? Probably should require that, having the free turn in the middle could be a bit too useful.
I think the spirit of the rules is that you place your foot where you are stepping and rotate in the process of taking that step. It's not a distinct movement on it's own, just a natural consequence of where your step reorients you.
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Old 12-16-2014, 10:49 AM   #138
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Default Re: Unarmed vs. Knife

Here's another risky but potentially rewarding idea for those who lack fancy skills (specifically, if your skills are Brawling or Sumo):
Slam

Initiate the slam when you're standing in an adjacent hex to the opponent. Move one hex forward, and perform a Mighty Blow against the enemy. (HP 10 Move 1)/100 = 0.1, which is 1d-3, plus two for a Mighty Blow, plus one or two for Brawling or Sumo. So 1d or 1d+1. Opponent of up to HP25 will roll 1d-3.

If you score a hit, the opponent may Dodge or Parry. If he Parries, your slam counts as a 10-pound weapon against the flimsy 1lbs knife, which is 6 times heavier, for a 5-in-6 chance of it breaking; auto-break against a cheap or lighter knife, and the parry doesn't count at all. So if you get damaged on a parry, you take damage once and likely disarm the opponent.
If you were Dodged, you just ran past, going out of range of the opponent, who will either have another go, or go for a highly-mobile attack.

If you scored a hit that was not defended against, you now roll your 1d against his 1d-3. You have a 18/36 (50%) chance of automatically knocking down the opponent, 11/36 (30%) chance of forcing a DX-or-fall roll (likely half of those 30% result in him falling, assuming DX10 and even ground), and a mere 1/36 (3%) chance to fall yourself.
If you have Sumo, you roll 1d+1, and your chances are even better, and you won't fall.
At this point, the opponent is grounded, for a -4 to his DX rolls and -3 to defences. Chances of getting hit for you are minimised, so you can do your further unarmed actions more safely. If you've got Ground Fighting, consider tacking methods below.

----

Extra options:

If you're sure you can pull this off, you might want to try using a default of the Springing Attack Technique, for -2 to hit and a +2 to damage, and some extra risks.

Likewise, you might consider Flying Tackle, which can be used to offset a nastier Deceptive Attack and/or the penalty for Springing Attack. Rolling 1d+2 or 1d+3 damage, you have a rather small chance (1/6 at worst, 4/36 at best) of not downing the opponent automatically.
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Last edited by vicky_molokh; 12-16-2014 at 10:53 AM.
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Old 12-16-2014, 11:39 AM   #139
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Default Re: Unarmed vs. Knife

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
Here's another risky but potentially rewarding idea for those who lack fancy skills (specifically, if your skills are Brawling or Sumo):
I don't know about you, but I think a really skilled Brawler or Sumo Wrestler's moves look pretty fancy. ;]

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
Slam

Initiate the slam when you're standing in an adjacent hex to the opponent. Move one hex forward, and perform a Mighty Blow against the enemy. (HP 10 Move 1)/100 = 0.1, which is 1d-3, plus two for a Mighty Blow, plus one or two for Brawling or Sumo. So 1d or 1d+1. Opponent of up to HP25 will roll 1d-3.
In addition to Mighty Blows (literally, if both are allowed and you take the Focused Fury Perk), AoA (Strong) goes a long way here, and the other guy probably won't be taking advantage of the active defense gap.

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
[snip] So if you get damaged on a parry, you take damage once and likely disarm the opponent.
Yeah, but that once is probably going to hurt a lot.

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
[snip] At this point, the opponent is grounded, for a -4 to his DX rolls and -3 to defences. Chances of getting hit for you are minimised, so you can do your further unarmed actions more safely. If you've got Ground Fighting, consider tacking methods below.
Also consider the humble Stamp Kick, if you have Brawling or Karate. +1 damage, no chance of falling, and the targeting restriction is waived against the prone. This is generally the go-to move after knocking somebody down if you haven't practiced Ground Fighting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
[snip] Likewise, you might consider Flying Tackle, which can be used to offset a nastier Deceptive Attack and/or the penalty for Springing Attack. Rolling 1d+2 or 1d+3 damage, you have a rather small chance (1/6 at worst, 4/36 at best) of not downing the opponent automatically.
Also don't forget about Drop Kick. A normal person landing one of those on another normal person as an AoA (Strong), especially wearing boots, has an almost-guaranteed knockdown.
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Old 12-16-2014, 11:52 AM   #140
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Default Re: Unarmed vs. Knife

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Yeah, but that once is probably going to hurt a lot.
For a Long Knife (the longest thing that seems to be implied under 'knife'), that's 1d-1 cut or 1d-2 imp, which is at most 7 injury on a cut or 8 on an impale. Which is certainly nasty, but, very importantly, is a pure torso hit, not Vitals or Limb. Under more likely rolls, you get 3-5 injury on a cut and 2-4 on an impale, which is about manageable with a good application of First Aid at TL8.
If the knife masses less than 1.42lbs, the parry auto-fails (i.e. most normal knives), so there's no Knife roll to injure the slammer at all.
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Last edited by vicky_molokh; 12-17-2014 at 03:19 AM.
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