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Old 10-15-2019, 11:51 AM   #1
Major Ross
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Default Pole Weapons: Attack / Defense Question

So, if two figures are engaged, and the higher DX figure decides to disengage on his action phase, with a Spear, the other figure cannot attack with a normal weapon (say a Sword). Next turn the sword guy wins initiative and then moves the 1 hex to engage the spearman. Can he move the one hex and DEFEND instead of ATTACKING? This way, although the spearman gets a +2 DX to defend against the swordsman moving adjacent to him, and an extra die of damage (if he hits), the swordsman forces the spearman to use 4 dice instead of 3. But, if the swordsman just moves adjacent, and does not attack, does the spearman still get the +2 DX adjustment, and is the swordsman even allowed to move adjacent, and NOT attack (defend, instead)?

The rulebook does not break this down properly...

THX
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Old 10-15-2019, 12:10 PM   #2
hcobb
 
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Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Pole Weapons: Attack / Defense Question

Standing against a single hex move only grants the +2 DX (and first strike) and not the extra die of damage.

The math favors a sword attack.

Example:

ST 11, DX 13, 2-h spear(1d+1)

ST 12, DX 12, Broadsword(2d), Small Shield(1)

Spearman disengages first turn and steps one back.
Swordsman (with nobody adjacent) changes his own option(ITL 102) to disengage (Valid because was engaged during movement ITL 103) and steps up to reengage. (Note one hex in any direction by ITL 106)
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Last edited by hcobb; 10-15-2019 at 12:17 PM.
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Old 10-15-2019, 12:33 PM   #3
Shostak
 
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Default Re: Pole Weapons: Attack / Defense Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Standing against a single hex move only grants the +2 DX (and first strike) and not the extra die of damage.

The math favors a sword attack.

Example:

ST 11, DX 13, 2-h spear(1d+1)

ST 12, DX 12, Broadsword(2d), Small Shield(1)

Spearman disengages first turn and steps one back.
Swordsman changes his own option to disengage and steps up to reengage.
It doesn't work that way. The two figures are engaged and declare their actions. Spearman acts first, since its adj DX is higher, disengages, moving out of range of the swordsman. Swordsman cannot take any action that requires additional movement at this point in the turn. The rules on ITL 106 are quite clear about this.

To answer Major Ross's question, it depends, since this is a grey area. I would argue that yes, the rules suggest that the spear wielder would get the +2 DX if attacking the incoming figure, even if that figure is defending. The whole issue of whether you can move and defend is the subject of much discussion, but the consensus seems to be that you can (best to checkw/your GM first).
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Old 10-15-2019, 12:52 PM   #4
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: Pole Weapons: Attack / Defense Question

I think the answer is yes, the swordsman can step 1 hex and defend. It is ambiguous because defend is organized as a 'shift and...' option in the LE materials, but I believe it was clearer in the older editions that you could move up to half your MA and defend, and nothing in the current edition seems to explicitly contradict that.
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Old 10-15-2019, 09:13 PM   #5
Les Haskell
 
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Default Re: Pole Weapons: Attack / Defense Question

If the Swordsman wins the Initiative and moves adjacent to the Spearman he may DEFEND, because now he is Engaged.
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Old 10-15-2019, 09:44 PM   #6
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: Pole Weapons: Attack / Defense Question

Well reasoned. Though I think it would also apply if the swordsman lost initiative but managed to move to engagement range during the movement phase.
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Old 10-16-2019, 12:20 AM   #7
Les Haskell
 
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Default Re: Pole Weapons: Attack / Defense Question

Yes. What is important is that as the status of being Engaged or Disengaged changes so do the Options. It is pointless to declare Options because part of the Option happens during Movement and part happens during Actions, and what happens during Movement can change your Options instantly before Actions, or even before the second side to move Movement. The players move according to Initiative and perform Actions in AdjDX order.
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Old 10-16-2019, 05:01 AM   #8
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Pole Weapons: Attack / Defense Question

Why can't a disengaged person take the Disengage option (if they've moved half move or less) in order to move away from a Jab or such?
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Old 10-16-2019, 12:01 PM   #9
Shostak
 
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Default Re: Pole Weapons: Attack / Defense Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Why can't a disengaged person take the Disengage option (if they've moved half move or less) in order to move away from a Jab or such?
Allowing things like this open up a whole can of worms. If you are going to welcome that kind of action, why not also let a disengaged low-DX figure who has just been the target of a pole jab take an extra step forward to engage without incurring the charge attack bonuses to the polearm? Because it ain't in the rules and encourages bickering at the table.
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Old 10-16-2019, 06:13 PM   #10
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Pole Weapons: Attack / Defense Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Ross View Post
So, if two figures are engaged, and the higher DX figure decides to disengage on his action phase, with a Spear, the other figure cannot attack with a normal weapon (say a Sword). Next turn the sword guy wins initiative and then moves the 1 hex to engage the spearman. Can he move the one hex and DEFEND instead of ATTACKING? This way, although the spearman gets a +2 DX to defend against the swordsman moving adjacent to him, and an extra die of damage (if he hits), the swordsman forces the spearman to use 4 dice instead of 3.
Yes. In the original rules wording, the only requirement to Defend is not having moved more than 1/2 MA. (And I don't think it was intended to be changed.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Ross View Post
But, if the swordsman just moves adjacent, and does not attack, does the spearman still get the +2 DX adjustment, and is the swordsman even allowed to move adjacent, and NOT attack (defend, instead)?
Yes. You can move up to someone with a pole weapon and not attack, but they can still get the "defend versus charge" bonuses even if you're not actually going to attack them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Why can't a disengaged person take the Disengage option (if they've moved half move or less) in order to move away from a Jab or such?
They can. It's only because of the removed/condensed clarifying Changing Options paragraph in original TFT that people are getting confused about this.
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