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Old 06-08-2008, 11:18 AM   #1
Rocket Man
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Default Honesty during the occupation

In GURPS, a character who is Honest compulsively follows the law. But sometimes you have to ask which law ...

Picture an alternate world in which the Nazis occupied Great Britain and installed a puppet government. The occupation is very recent, and the "old government" is still fresh in many memories. Living in this occupied Britain, you have a PC who is an Englishman as Honest as the day is long.

In the course of the adventure, a terrified woman asks the PC to hide her from the authorities. She is doubly doomed -- not only is she a member of the British Resistance, but she's also Jewish. Under the laws of the current regime, that means she is to be turned over for execution.

Can our Englishman say that he doesn't accept the legitimacy of the occupation government and hide our heroine, since under the British law he grew up with, she's done nothing wrong? Or is he bound to follow the law, no matter where it comes from and who's administering it, requiring him to turn over the girl despite himself?
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Old 06-08-2008, 11:30 AM   #2
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Honesty during the occupation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Man
In GURPS, a character who is Honest compulsively follows the law. But sometimes you have to ask which law ...

Picture an alternate world in which the Nazis occupied Great Britain and installed a puppet government. The occupation is very recent, and the "old government" is still fresh in many memories. Living in this occupied Britain, you have a PC who is an Englishman as Honest as the day is long.

In the course of the adventure, a terrified woman asks the PC to hide her from the authorities. She is doubly doomed -- not only is she a member of the British Resistance, but she's also Jewish. Under the laws of the current regime, that means she is to be turned over for execution.

Can our Englishman say that he doesn't accept the legitimacy of the occupation government and hide our heroine, since under the British law he grew up with, she's done nothing wrong? Or is he bound to follow the law, no matter where it comes from and who's administering it, requiring him to turn over the girl despite himself?
It depends. If the British government has actually surrendered, then our Honest man has to play by the new rules. If, on the other hand, the British government continues to fight from it's interim capital at Ottawa, then our Honest man has the option of choosing which set of laws is more valid.
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Old 06-08-2008, 12:09 PM   #3
wyldcat
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default Re: Honesty during the occupation

Bear in mind that Honesty has a Self Control Roll. Definitely make one for the Honest guy, and I'm thinking there should be a modifier based on any reaction bonuses the woman may have.

Also, he really has 3 choices: 1) turn her in, 2) ignore her, 3) help her. My reading of Honesty says that he must try to obey the law, and try to help others do so, however he isn't obligated to enforce the law. Note that RAW does say if he commits a crime he may turn himself in if he fails his second SCR, but that doesn't say anything about others. Probably the majority of ordinary people, with or without Honesty, would be picking door #2 anyway.

Another disad that could also play into this situation is Pacifism: Cannot Harm Innocents. If your guy had this as well, she probably would not count as she's a member of the Resistance, however she is apparently not taking any overt action at this time. If she was just hunted for being Jewish, that's another matter--would Honesty under the Third Reich mean she is automatically guilty due to her race?

Then of course, if he does turn her in, we have one of her comrades who does NOT have Honesty, but does have Pacifism: Cannot Harm Innocents, get ordered to kill him for being an evil collaborator. Does his act make him fair game? He is not directly threatening our second resistant, who's sneaking up on him without him even know she's there. He's with his family, who he presumably was trying to protect, and she can't risk shooting them obviously, but then again they are benefiting from his treachery, and so on.

Ah, occupations and moral dilemmas -- no wonder they brought the world Existentialism...!

Last edited by wyldcat; 06-08-2008 at 12:18 PM.
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Old 06-08-2008, 12:17 PM   #4
Dantar
 
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Default Re: Honesty during the occupation

Do what the Aes Sedai do... "An Aes Sedai never lies, but the truth she tells you isn't the one you think you hear."
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Old 06-08-2008, 12:23 PM   #5
rosignol
 
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Default Re: Honesty during the occupation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Man
Can our Englishman say that he doesn't accept the legitimacy of the occupation government and hide our heroine, since under the British law he grew up with, she's done nothing wrong?
In my opinion (YMMV), a Honest character feels a compulsion to abide by a legal code, either the one currently prevailing in the current location, or the one of their home culture, and that the PC should be consistent about it.

I'd be willing to give a player who argued that their character regarded an occupation government's laws as illegitimate a pass, so long as they continued to abide by the 'legitimate' government's laws.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Man
Or is he bound to follow the law, no matter where it comes from and who's administering it, requiring him to turn over the girl despite himself?
IMO, no.
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Old 06-08-2008, 01:36 PM   #6
Flyndaran
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Default Re: Honesty during the occupation

Quote:
Originally Posted by rosignol
In my opinion (YMMV), a Honest character feels a compulsion to abide by a legal code, either the one currently prevailing in the current location, or the one of their home culture, and that the PC should be consistent about it.
...
That creates quite a variable of how lenient the character's home government is.
Yay, my hypothetical honest guy could commit vengeance killings etc. in the U.S.
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Old 06-08-2008, 01:46 PM   #7
ADAXL
 
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Default Re: Honesty during the occupation

How about a conversion of Honesty into Code of Honor (upholds British values)? This Code of Honor would be like Honesty in most everyday situation, but he would be able to break Nazi laws and act as a good English gentleman instead.
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Old 06-08-2008, 01:54 PM   #8
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: Honesty during the occupation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyndaran
That creates quite a variable of how lenient the character's home government is.
Yay, my hypothetical honest guy could commit vengeance killings etc. in the U.S.
Only if his local set of laws mandated it. If it was just allowed, while the local laws forbade it then he wouldn't violate the local laws.
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Old 06-08-2008, 02:17 PM   #9
Janus Methédor
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Default Re: Honesty during the occupation

interesting this a line that would cover this wasn't transfered through the edition veil. In 3e their's a line written hat says something like: when the character is in an area where he/she isn't sure what the law is the character follows the laws and rules of his home culture/area.
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Old 06-08-2008, 02:24 PM   #10
Verjigorm
 
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Default Re: Honesty during the occupation

It's still enforced. Note this doesn't mean mister Honest doesn't conflict with the establishment. His "british values" are probably at odds with Nazism. So he is probably already seen with a bit of suspicion. I have no problems with the Honest guy choosing to be adverse to the Nazis, though he must stick to that decision.
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