07-05-2010, 12:43 PM | #1 |
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Consequences for helper if main player escapes before die roll?
Suppose someone faces a tough monster, asks for and gets a helper, but then escapes from the combat before the die roll (cf. Teleportation Potion thread), and the helper does not have a card to do the same.
I assume that once the helper has agreed to help, they are moved into the room (if not there already) and remain there in any case. Would the helper be left in the position of continuing the combat? (And if so, could they ask for help?) Or rather is it the case that this combat would subside as soon as the original main player has left? In that case, no combat would take place until it is the helper's turn. But then, if the monster is still there, the helper would still need to contend with the monster (possibly with no one else around to help). I suspect it is the latter, but wanted to check. (Even then, it is still a potentially nasty predicament for the helper.) |
07-05-2010, 11:42 PM | #2 |
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Switzerland
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Re: Consequences for helper if main player escapes before die roll?
I would tend to think that the combat goes on, without any delay.
The helper must cope with the monster, without even gaining a level if he wins - but reaping treasure for sure - and with no help. Of course, the helper could also escape combat with a special card, like teleportation. I would not wait until the helper's turn, as the Monster may have gone away at that time . and there would also be a difficult managing of the rules if another player enters the room meanwhile (what ought the helper do ?)...
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07-06-2010, 12:58 PM | #3 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Macungie, PA
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Re: Consequences for helper if main player escapes before die roll?
Bear with me while I try to figure out how best to answer this. It can kind of go either way, depending on what cards were played. I also know that, at least in Munchkin, there are cards which allow the main combatant to leave and the helper still has to finish out the combat. I want to look through the Quest card database tonight and see what cards move people around, even during combat, and how they're worded to see if we have any clues about how the generic case should be handled.
My first instinct, however, is that if the main combatant bails using some card to instantly get out of the combat, the combat is over and the helper is stuck with taking a hit per Monster and having to Run Away unless the card used to get the main combatant away says something else. |
07-06-2010, 06:49 PM | #4 | ||||
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Re: Consequences for helper if main player escapes before die roll?
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07-06-2010, 07:15 PM | #5 | ||
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Re: Consequences for helper if main player escapes before die roll?
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(Also, even if it were determined that they couldn't technically ask for a "helper" of their own (something that is murky), it still might be that they could agree to reward someone who intervenes in the combat in favor of the helper (e.g. with one-shots). So there could be some possibility of help in that way.) About the central question, I did just discover something in the rules tonight (p. 8): Quote:
It would seem that the clear implication of that paragraph from p. 8 is that if not all of the munchkins have been removed from the room (and not all the monsters), then the combat is not over. Since the combat is not over, then I would suppose that the helper needs to try to do as best they can, possibly with the benefit of any helpful intervention that comes their way. If they lose, they lose as usual, but they should at least be able to try I would think. And if they win, I would suppose that they get the levels and treasure that normally apply. They earned it. Doesn't that make sense? Last edited by Thomas; 07-06-2010 at 07:18 PM. Reason: adjust italics |
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07-06-2010, 08:17 PM | #6 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Macungie, PA
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Re: Consequences for helper if main player escapes before die roll?
I've taken a look at the database. Since Teleportation Potion says that "you Run Away immediately," the only thing that makes sense to me is that if the main combatant uses it during combat, that combat is now over, the helper must find a way to escape without getting hurt or take a hit per Monster and try to Run Away.
If Andrew can play poke-a-developer and get better insight on this, I welcome it. However, I don't want further suggestions on how everyone thinks it should work because that will just confuse the issue. |
07-06-2010, 09:23 PM | #7 |
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Re: Consequences for helper if main player escapes before die roll?
Thanks, Erik, for considering this and for looking into it. If there are further thoughts (from you or Andrew), I'd be interested to know too about the clarification questions I raised in my previous post concerning "all the munchkins" in the relevant paragraph from page 8 of the rules. (Or, if it is more appropriate, I could make a new thread just for that.)*
Thanks again. *p.s. While Andrew's clarifying insights or relayed developer input would still be welcome regarding the main question of the thread, the side question about clarifying the meaning of "all the munchkins" has been addressed by Andrew in another thread here., i.e. it means both the main munchkin and helper, if any. Last edited by Thomas; 07-15-2010 at 09:20 AM. Reason: added p.s. |
07-07-2010, 12:50 AM | #8 | |
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Switzerland
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Re: Consequences for helper if main player escapes before die roll?
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But as Eric clarified the whole question, all is fine.
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07-15-2010, 09:31 AM | #9 | |||
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Re: Consequences for helper if main player escapes before die roll?
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I hope that it is OK if I illustrate what is still unclear by looking at an unresolved aspect. What should happen to any "use once" cards that have been played? Consider various options. A. If this had been a case where "the combat is over" prematurely according to the rules on p. 8, there would be no resolution to a win or a loss and all the "use once" cards (except monster enhancement) would be given back to their owners to use later. However, if the helper remains, that does not fulfill the requirements as they are written, since not "all the munchkins" have been removed. B. If one changed those rules from saying Quote:
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C. Within standard rules, if at least one monster and one munchkin remains, it would seem that the "use once" cards would not be returned because the combat would proceed to resolution as a win or loss, with a combat die roll 2.6 seconds after no more cards have been played. So the cards would have expended their effect on a combat that completed. But this would mean that the remaining helper would have at least the opportunity and (literally) a fighting chance to win rather than lose. In this case, as well as the others above, a loss is not assumed. Depending on the cards played, it even could still happen that the last monster is removed from the room, leading back to case A. D. Some other option? But if so, I am unable to connect any other option with anything I have been able to find in the rules. I could not find any discussion of what happens to "use once" cards in any case where the combat is not normally resolved, but the helper would still be assumed to have lost. So do you see why the resolution to this situation is still unclear, at least to me? Thanks in advance for your clarifications. |
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07-15-2010, 10:43 AM | #10 |
Munchkin Line Editor
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Austin, TX
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Re: Consequences for helper if main player escapes before die roll?
Andrew and the developer both have other things that have to be done, so I'm just going to say that Erik is correct and let it stand there.
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combat, helper, magical escape |
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