Supers Char

[zoncxs]

Originally Posted by naloth

A GM that wants to do so certainly can. Bear in mind that Super-Effort expressly doesn't help grappling...

Huh, I did not know that, its the very last line on p.58 of Powers describing the enhancement for Lifting ST.

As GM I would rule 0 that out. It makes no sense.

Originally Posted by naloth

...or a few other minor things,...

I also can't think of any minor things that Super ST can't help with, got any examples?

Originally Posted by naloth

...so even without an extra fatigue cost your ST isn't effectively always the higher value.

Yes, yes it would, if the player declares they are always using the Super ST part of their ST. The point of it cost FP is to limit how long you can keep that up at any given time. By removing the cost you can maintain it indefinitely.

Originally Posted by naloth

...Personally, I find that KYOS makes a much better solution.

Never a fan, I personally have my own ST table that works for any genre.

[Bradix]

wow I truly love how everyone is brainstorming here!!!! I really appreciate this... keep it up.... I still have a month before my char has to be completed.... but the GM is open to me playing basically anything that isn't world breaking since we are supposed to be good guys trying to save the world haha.... so far my team is a fast talker/super gadgeteer with a force sword.... a speedster/duper, and a blaster.... so trying my best to fill the durable strong guy role haha

[awesomenessofme1]

Originally Posted by zoncxs

Huh, I did not know that, its the very last line on p.58 of Powers describing the enhancement for Lifting ST.

As GM I would rule 0 that out. It makes no sense.

It was probably written that way since in Powers, they didn't intend Super-Effort to be used to boost damage. That's why only Lifting ST can have it. It's pretty ridiculous to suggest that both attacks and lifts are enhanced, but somehow this one specific use isn't.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1

It was probably written that way since in Powers, they didn't intend Super-Effort to be used to boost damage. That's why only Lifting ST can have it. It's pretty ridiculous to suggest that both attacks and lifts are enhanced, but somehow this one specific use isn't.

It's not written that way.

G:Supers expressly lists *only* what Super-Effort helps with. The 4 things listed are extra effort lift*, striking, throwing, and knock back resistance. It expressly does not help with grappling. It should not help with encumbrance**. Min ST is typically part of lifting rather than striking, so while I would overlook that it doesn't expressly help with that either.

*Super Effort replaces normal and godlike Extra Effort.

**Reduced Fatigue subtracts the first fatigue from a use. You'd still have to pay the reoccurring costs for "walking around or pulling" and "holding it up". Aside from being defined as "extra effort" fatigue costs would make using it for encumbrance impractical.

BTW, the above example would make the normal form ST 13 (since it's a flat -6, rather than a -6 only in metal form).

[JulianLW]

Originally Posted by zoncxs

This is what I would do too, but then when you go through the logic it does not match. Colossus has ST 19-20 without being metal With Super ST having the "Only in metal form" limitation, that means he would not get the +13 ST unless he turns metal.

That's why I modified the Super Effort +300% to be a Limited Enhancement, Only in Metal Form, etc, which brought the Super Effort to +450. It's making the Super Effort ST apply only to the Metal Form, while the unenhanced +13 always applies.

Originally Posted by zoncxs

also remember that the super ST is added to base ST.

The Super ST is +13/+300

add that to ST 6 and you get = ST 19/306

Duh.

Originally Posted by zoncxs

ST 6 [-40] + Super ST +13/300 (Super effort (Only in Metallic Form, -10%, PM, -10%), +240%; Cosmic, reduced FP cost, +70%) [533]

that gives us:

ST 19/306 [493]

you have ST 19 normally have ST 19, but you can up it after 1 second to 306 only when you are in your metal form.

I would allow this in my Supers game.

Yes. That's the build I was describing, except that I think the Reduced FP cost should also apply to the +300% of Super Effort, since there's no FP cost to use the +13. The limitations Only in Metallic Form, PM, and Reduced FP only apply to the use of the larger ST value:

Super ST +13/300 (Super Effort, Limited Enhancement: Only in Metallic Form, -10%, PM, -10%, Cosmic, reduced FP cost, +70%: +450%) [715]

No?

[naloth]

Originally Posted by zoncxs

That would cost more and take even longer to pull off if you don't buy will or power blow up.

Just to look at buying up (Fixed) ST if Godlike Extra Effort is allowed:

ST 20 (human form) [100]
Fixed ST +40 (Effective ST 60; Only in Metal Form -10%, SM+1 -10%) [256]
ER Reserve 40 (Godlike Effort; ST Only -50%) [60]
Lifting (skill) - 16 (with Will-14*, 8 points)

He could boost his effective ST by +400% with using 40 ER and making a Lifting-4 roll for an effective ST of 300. It's one massive punch or a min or lifting effort.

Total cost: 424 points not counting Will.

This version has a much higher "normal" ST, can do the right feats, but only once before resting for quite a while.

[AlexanderHowl]

Remember, Extra Effort is a Will-based roll, not a HT-based roll, so Will would be important.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Remember, Extra Effort is a Will-based roll, not a HT-based roll, so Will would be important.

Yes, my mistake... It should have read based in Will+2 with a Will-14 instead of HT-14.

[AlexanderHowl]

If you increase Will to 20, you would have an effective '22' to extra effort. With success by 6 and 40 ER, allowing an increase by 2400% (60% × 40), allowing an effective ST 1500 (since extra effort with Lifting gives a +10% per point of success). You would probably want Regeneration (Extreme; ER only, +0%; PM, -10%; ), as you would recover 20 ER per turn in human form and 60 ER per turn in the alternate form.

[zoncxs]

Originally Posted by naloth

It's not written that way.

G:Supers expressly lists *only* what Super-Effort helps with. The 4 things listed are extra effort lift*, striking, throwing, and knock back resistance. It expressly does not help with grappling. It should not help with encumbrance**. Min ST is typically part of lifting rather than striking, so while I would overlook that it doesn't expressly help with that either.

Which is why I said "As GM I would rule 0 that out. It makes no sense."

Originally Posted by naloth

**Reduced Fatigue subtracts the first fatigue from a use. You'd still have to pay the reoccurring costs for "walking around or pulling" and "holding it up". Aside from being defined as "extra effort" fatigue costs would make using it for encumbrance impractical.

Hmmm... you kind of have a point. In which case the ability would need a second reduced FP cost to cover "Abilities and Exertion" to zero out those cost. Thats only +20%.

Originally Posted by naloth

BTW, the above example would make the normal form ST 13 (since it's a flat -6, rather than a -6 only in metal form).

ST 6 [-40] + Super ST 13/300 = 6+13(300) = 19/306.

I don't know where you got -6 from...

Originally Posted by naloth

Just to look at buying up (Fixed) ST if Godlike Extra Effort is allowed:

ST 20 (human form) [100]
Fixed ST +40 (Effective ST 60; Only in Metal Form -10%, SM+1 -10%) [256]
ER Reserve 40 (Godlike Effort; ST Only -50%) [60]
Lifting (skill) - 16 (with HT-14, 8 points)

He could boost his effective ST by +400% with using 40 ER and making a Lifting-4 roll for an effective ST of 300. It's one massive punch or a min or lifting effort.

Total cost: 424 points.

This version has a much higher "normal" ST, can do the right feats, but only once before resting for quite a while.

ER ST only is not valid, I don't see where you got that from, but Stunts Only is valid and cost -10%

Oh yeah, +1 SM, that brings the cost down a little. It also applies to normal ST so you save 10pts on your build (though your ER cost went way up).

The skill is way to low, if you are using regular extra effort you want it high enough to actually matter.

Also, you can use other skills to if it makes sense for extra effort rolls.