Mixing ammunition in firearms

[Ulzgoroth]

When you fire only one type of ammunition in a single attack, most of them are clear enough on how it should be handled. But what if you mix it up?
What if the top two shells in your pump shotgun are a shotshell, and a dragonbreath?
What if your ammo belt is 1/5 tracers?
What if your shotload is half silver shot, half cast iron?

[Dinadon]

It only depends on how you they're been loaded. If your rounds are loaded as every 5th one being a tracer, then clear every 5th shot will be a tracer. If you're going to mix bullets, you should remember to keep track of them.
Damage for shots is always resolved individually for each round, the to hit roll simply determines the number of hits.
For something like a shotgun, only the rounds that actually split up count towards the bonus for rapid fire.
And so on.

[TheNinjaD]

I think I agree with Dinadon.

If you do this with a weapon that can hold four rounds, for example, keep track of what order the different types of ammo were put in the weapon. If a special round was put in first, apply it's effect to the first attack made with that weapon.

[Ulzgoroth]

The core point in most of the cases is that the system tells you how many rounds hit, but doesn't tell you anything about which ones hit. Normally, they're all identical, but when they aren't you have at least a little more difficulty.

And then the dragonbreath round gives you a cone attack. The RoF rules don't take that possibility into account at all.

[Ultraviolet]

Ok, suppose a pump-action shotgun firing 3 rounds, 1 shotshell, one solid and another shot. Both shotshells have "RoF 7", from the 7 pellets, and Rcl 1, and the solid slug "RoF 1" and Rcl 5.

A total effective RoF of 7+1+7=15, thats +3.

Since the Rcl differs, I'd look at the sequence of rounds, Shot-Solid-Shot is Rcl: 1-5-1.

So making the adjusted Guns roll by 0-6 hits with respectively 1-7 pellets. Further succes by full 5 more (for a total of succes by 11) is a hit with the Slug as well. Finally, succes by 1-7 more (total of 12-18) is a hit with 1-7 more pellets.

Phew. Crunchy, but it *could* work...Succes by 18+, like that's going to happen! Anyway, who expects to hit with all pellets?

Mixing a cone-attack into this, I'd probably just roll for that one separately. Or will I??? I can't remember the cone rules, but perhaps you could do it like the slug situation.

And how about firing buck-and-ball rounds???

[Turhan's Bey Company]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

When you fire only one type of ammunition in a single attack, most of them are clear enough on how it should be handled. But what if you mix it up?

I can see two approaches. One is statistical: start with the number of shots in the burst, compare that with the number of shots in the burst which hit, determine randomly from that which shot(s) from that burst hit, and track how ammo was set up in the belt/clip/magazine to figure out what kind of ammo those particular shots were.

Or the GM can just apply his own judgment and whack the player in the head with a copy of the Basic Set for trying to make him do vast amounts of work for very little roleplaying benefit.

[carllarson]

Originally Posted by Ultraviolet

Ok, suppose a pump-action shotgun firing 3 rounds, 1 shotshell, one solid and another shot. Both shotshells have "RoF 7", from the 7 pellets, and Rcl 1, and the solid slug "RoF 1" and Rcl 5.

A total effective RoF of 7+1+7=15, thats +3.

Since the Rcl differs, I'd look at the sequence of rounds, Shot-Solid-Shot is Rcl: 1-5-1.

So making the adjusted Guns roll by 0-6 hits with respectively 1-7 pellets. Further succes by full 5 more (for a total of succes by 11) is a hit with the Slug as well. Finally, succes by 1-7 more (total of 12-18) is a hit with 1-7 more pellets.

Phew. Crunchy, but it *could* work...Succes by 18+, like that's going to happen! Anyway, who expects to hit with all pellets?

Mixing a cone-attack into this, I'd probably just roll for that one separately. Or will I??? I can't remember the cone rules, but perhaps you could do it like the slug situation.

And how about firing buck-and-ball rounds???

Some issues with this: Firing all three, the slug has a higher probability to hit, giving its higher base damage, than all of the prior shot sent downrange, and all of the shot sent later. Shot spreads, the slug doesn't.

Looking at Buck and Ball, HT 173, where a full-sized ball is mixed with multiple smaller buckshot, supports this. The first hit is the ball, then extra is shot. Remember, the recoil 1 for shot is to reflect that multiple shot hits smaller more often.

You may have to roll these seperate, not Rapid Fire. Roll for each round in sequence. Apply each in sequence.

[copeab]

Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company

Or the GM can just apply his own judgment and whack the player in the head with a copy of the Basic Set for trying to make him do vast amounts of work for very little roleplaying benefit.

OTOH, there *are* people in the real world who do alternate 00 buck and slugs in shotguns (the main disadvantage is forgetting which you have chambered in the middle of a fight; a close second is remember what you have chambered and knowing it's the wrong load for the current target).

I'll mention that the 3e shotguns rules could handle this situation with only trivial difficulty :)

[Ulzgoroth]

Yes, book-to-the-head may be the optimal solution...I think I have an affinity for questions that should be answered that way.

But in some cases it really is desirable to fire a mixed ammo load. Like when you're dealing with supernatural targets known to have one of a set of vulnerabilities...but there's no easy way to know which without trying them.

Originally Posted by Ultraviolet

And how about firing buck-and-ball rounds???

I actually thought buck-and-ball would be comparatively easy, because it seemed that it was more a thing for single-shot weapons. Even if you've got a multi-barreled piece and are firing more than one barrel, you probably want to fire them simultaneously, so just treat it as one big buck-and-ball where the first two hits are the big bullets.

Buck-and-ball from an automatic weapon...that'd be cringe-inducing, yeah.

[rozumcrans]

Dragonfire rounds are supposed to be bad for shotguns, especially sustained usage as the high temperatures ruin the temper of the weapons metal.