Is a 5th Edition coming soon? [Answer: NO, it isn't!]

[Qoltar]

I think GURPS will have its 5th edition about the same time that Kromm gets a Driver's license and/or I stop using a cane to walk.


- Ed Charlton

[Lonewulf]

(Listening to the D&D 4th edition speech)

"We're looking to expand the 'sweet spot' (between 17th and 14th level). We're going to start the 'sweet spot' at first level, and then have it go all the way up to 30th."

WHAT?!!!!! So people are given incredible power from level one?!

:rolleyes:

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Lonewulf

WHAT?!!!!! So people are given incredible power from level one?!

The "sweet spot" isn't defined by "incredible power". It's the "sweet spot" because the different classes are perceived to be both balanced and fun to play. Between levels 7 and 14, wizards and sorcerers have plenty of spells to cast but they don't totally eclipse the other classes. Meanwhile everybody can basically succeed most of the time at basic adventuring tasks (Fighters can usually hit AC 20+, Rouges can disarm most traps ect.).

At lower levels, spell casters can't do much, and everybody fails at stuff a lot. At higher levels, everyone becomes support for the wizard.

[Lonewulf]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

The "sweet spot" isn't defined by "incredible power". It's the "sweet spot" because the different classes are perceived to be both balanced and fun to play. Between levels 7 and 14, wizards and sorcerers have plenty of spells to cast but they don't totally eclipse the other classes. Meanwhile everybody can basically succeed most of the time at basic adventuring tasks (Fighters can usually hit AC 20+, Rouges can disarm most traps ect.).

At lower levels, spell casters can't do much, and everybody fails at stuff a lot. At higher levels, everyone becomes support for the wizard.

Okay, so the "sweet spot" isn't defined as "incredible power", but "succeeding most of the time" with very high AC and very good disarming skills (?) and being balanced (that part sounds OK to me).

[Andrew Hackard]

Originally Posted by Lonewulf

Okay, so the "sweet spot" isn't defined as "incredible power", but "succeeding most of the time" with very high AC and very good disarming skills (?) and being balanced (that part sounds OK to me).

No, that wasn't what he said, either. The "sweet spot" is the place where the arcane classes are balanced in power with the other classes. At low levels, they're too weak (only a handful of spells a day, and no combat abilities to speak of); at high levels, they dominate a game. A fighter never has a way to unleash death to dozens of people at once; a mid-teen-level mage can do it without breaking a sweat.

If D&D4 has found a way around that problem, I am impressed.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard

No, that wasn't what he said, either. The "sweet spot" is the place where the arcane classes are balanced in power with the other classes. At low levels, they're too weak (only a handful of spells a day, and no combat abilities to speak of); at high levels, they dominate a game. A fighter never has a way to unleash death to dozens of people at once; a mid-teen-level mage can do it without breaking a sweat.

If D&D4 has found a way around that problem, I am impressed.

My understanding the 4E fighter will more resemble the Warblade from Tome of Battle (the book of 9 sword) which does have ways to unleash death on dozen of people

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard

A fighter never has a way to unleash death to dozens of people at once; a mid-teen-level mage can do it without breaking a sweat.

As far as I remember, Great Cleave, Whirlwind Attack and the class ability of some Prestige Classes called Supreme Cleave could effectively be combined to deal death to about 24-32 mooks per round.

With a paladin's bonded mount, the mounted combat feats, Cleave and the horse itself having Great Cleave; it was possible to ride into massed ranks and kill hundreds per round for as long as you cared to continue (the character who did was 19th level, but I don't know if he couldn't have done it at 12th or earlier).

It didn't make any sense, but it was rules legal.

[Rasputin]

Originally Posted by Icelander

As far as I remember, Great Cleave, Whirlwind Attack and the class ability of some Prestige Classes called Supreme Cleave could effectively be combined to deal death to about 24-32 mooks per round.

You can't use Cleave/Great Cleave and Whirlwind Attack. Explicitly forbidden.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Rasputin

You can't use Cleave/Great Cleave and Whirlwind Attack. Explicitly forbidden.

Not in 3.0, AFAIK.

But that doesn't matter. Whirlwind Attack wasn't necessary, It just gave you more free attacks against mooks who were already dead. It was the Supreme Cleave which was the killer.

[lambda]

Originally Posted by Icelander

It didn't make any sense, but it was rules legal.

Well, it doesn't make sense in anything approaching a realistic game, but in a cinematic/epic fantasy sort of game, you generally want your legendary fighters to be able to kill dozens of enemies in seconds.

Now, me, I prefer somewhat grittier, more realistic combat if I'm going to be bothering with calculating damage, hit points, etc. If I want epic combat, I should just have some kind of "epic combat" aspect and just be able to say that I waste 30 mooks at once, unless I'm going up against someone else who's capable of epic combat.