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Old 06-22-2020, 05:51 PM   #21
NineDaysDead
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Default Re: Alternative attributes, Supers and other stuff

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Personally, I find KYOS less realistic than the default ST system.
Why?
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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
If you just want large increases in lifting capacity relative to overall ST,
I want any difference in ST to represent the same proportional difference regardless of where it is on the scale, e.g. under KYOS 5 to 10 represents the same proportional difference as 10 to 15 or 27 to 32 etc.

Imagine 3 hypothetical races Pixie ST 5, Human ST 10 and Ogre ST 20, and a hypothetical "Barbarian" Template ST +6. Under 4e the Pixie Barbarian is 4.8 times stronger than the average pixie, but the Human Barbarian is only 2.55 times stronger than the average human, and the Ogre Barbarian is only 1.6875 times stronger than the average Ogre.
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Old 06-23-2020, 01:02 PM   #22
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Default Re: Alternative attributes, Supers and other stuff

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Originally Posted by NineDaysDead View Post
What makes you think the relationship damage has with lifting is better or more realistic on the chart from 4e Basic?
After a point I think KyoS becomes really disconnected from the damage it deals, at least compared to basic strength. Are you saying this isn't true?

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Originally Posted by NineDaysDead View Post
Basic 4ed uses the same ST damage table as 3rd ed, but 4e has geometric lifting and 3rd was linear lifting. By your logic ST 20 (4X ST 10 lift) in 4th edition should do "thr 4d+1 sw 7d-1" because that's what ST 40 (4X ST 10 lift) did in 3rd edition. And ST 20 in KYOS should do "thr 11d sw 13d" because that's what ST 100 (10X ST 10 lift) did in 3rd.
Yes that is correct, if you want to connect lifting and damage to those in 3ed.
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Old 06-23-2020, 02:07 PM   #23
NineDaysDead
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Default Re: Alternative attributes, Supers and other stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malfi View Post
After a point I think KyoS becomes really disconnected from the damage it deals, at least compared to basic strength. Are you saying this isn't true?
If we accept AlexanderHowl's statement
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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Damage is based on the square root of the energy expended (changes in velocity) while lifting capacity is based on the energy expended (changes in energy expended), so 10x lifting capacity would only allow for ~3x as much damage. I think that GURPS acknowledges this relationship makes it a more realistic system than most.
Then in both standard 4e and KyoS the damage is disconnected from Lifting capacity.

ST 10 does Thrust 1d-2 (Average 1.66)and Swing 1d (Average 3.5)


Under standard 4e
ST 20 = 4x Lifting which should be 2x Damage per AlexanderHowl quote above.

1.66 X2 = 3.32 ≈ 3.5 = Thrust 1d
3.5 X2 = 7 = Swing 2d

however the table gives Thrust 2d-1 Swing 3d+1


ST 30 = 9x Lifting which should be 3x Damage

1.66 X3 = 4.98 ≈ 5 ≈ Thrust 1d+1 or Thrust 1d+2
Swing 3d

however the table gives Thrust 3d Swing 5d+2


ST 40 = 16x Lifting which should be 4x Damage

1.66 X4 = 6.64 ≈ 7 ≈ Thrust 2d-1 or Thrust 2d
Swing 4d

however the table gives Thrust 4d+1 Swing 7d-1


50 = 25x Lifting which should be 5x Damage

1.66 X5 = 8.3 ≈ Thrust 2d+1
Swing 5d

however the table gives Thrust 5d+2 Swing 8d-1

etc
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Old 06-30-2020, 08:20 PM   #24
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Default Re: Alternative attributes, Supers and other stuff

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Originally Posted by Malfi View Post
How do you apply it to IA and DR?
Once you get past level 20, each 'step' costs the same as five levels; 30, 50, 70, 100, 150, etc. It's basically the same as the link I sent, except that attributes happen to start at 10. At high power levels, I find the max limits more meaningful to a campaign than the point costs when it comes to damage (Supers talks about it such as Individual Scale, Centigrade, etc). I find this lets characters fulfill a certain niche well by both maxing out certain traits and then still having points for all the other things necessary (this largely helps to prevent glass cannon builds by restricting how strong their attacks can be in a roundabout but meaningful to the campaign way).
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While I do not think that GURPS is perfect I do think that it is more balanced than what I am likely to create by GM fiat.
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