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Old 03-08-2012, 01:13 PM   #1
PseudoFenton
 
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Default Thrown Weapon (Dart) - What can I actually throw?

Other than "pub" darts (of which I can find no weapon listings for anyway), just what weapons are covered in dart throwing?

TW (Shuriken) seems to cover the pointy thin shurikens as well as the pointed stars, TW (Knife) covers anything more knife shaped, and Spear or Stick cover anything generally longer than a dart. Simple enough, so TW (Dart) covers anything that's left, or to quote Basic Set "Any sort of small, finned dart". Except Basic Set doesn't give any weaponry under this skill, the only thing which mentions darts in there is a spear thrower (which cant be thrown without said thrower it seems).

So looking into other books, we find in LT the Throwing Dart, which is described as "A long dart, a projectile similar to a heavy arrow or a short javelin". Which strikes me more as a spear than a dart especially as the dart skill says small while this is described as long and like a short javelin and weights half that of a javelin.

MA says Fast-Draw (Knife) can be used to fast draw any weapon under TW (Dart) too which suggests something small and generally knife sized (not half that of a javelin) - but then goes on to list the Plumbata as a weapon which uses the TW (Dart) skill, even though the Plumbata is very much a large "short javelin" weapon (again weighing in at half that of a javelin). And if my memory serves me right - that form of "war dart" isn't even thrown like a standard pub dart or even a javelin (pretty sure it involves a rope/thong for one).

There seems to be a massive inconsistency between "You can use TW (Dart) as Games (Darts)" (which I take to mean the pub game) with a dart description of "Small" in Basic Set, and the ones seen in other books which actually have weapon listings as half a javelin and pretty much 10 times the weight of a 'heavy' pub dart.

So, can someone please tell me: Just what does the Thrown Weapon (Dart) skill actually cover in way of weapons and what stats should they use?
And yes, I understand that I just listed what it covers, but that mean it makes any sense!
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Old 03-08-2012, 02:01 PM   #2
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Default Re: Thrown Weapon (Dart) - What can I actually throw?

I think it's long for a dart, not long like a javelin.

I'd say that the best historical example would be the roman "Plumbatae" (not to be confused with "Pilum". They can be seen half-way down this page.

A modern Lawn Dart would also use this skill, since it's decended from this weapon. I'd also allow you to use this skill to throw a Crossbow Bolt with your bare hands.

All would use the stats from Low Tech.
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Old 03-08-2012, 02:04 PM   #3
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Default Re: Thrown Weapon (Dart) - What can I actually throw?

The Aztecs are the people I think of who used the "throwing darts" meant under Thrown Weapon (Dart). Your familiarity with Pub Darts is what's screwing up your sense of scale. When you insist on calling a short javelin "large", it's a sign you need to recalibrate your sense of scale :)

Think weaponized lawn dart, not pub dart. Pub darts are shuriken.

I wouldn't call them spears or javelins myself - other than to say they're like "small, thick, fletched javelins" in the same way you could call them "like heavy funny-shaped arrows". They're two or three feet long. The can be launched out of an appropriate atl-atl (and the appropriate skill) or thrown by hand, and can't be fired from a bow.

There's a clear gradient of "long stick or needle weapons with a pointy bit on the end that you throw at people", and GURPS breaks it down into three skill specialties:
Shuriken
Darts
Spears

And a bunch of named entries on weapon tables:
shuriken
atl-atl darts and plumbata
javelins and short spears
spears
long spears and pikes

Lawn darts go in between the shuriken to atl-atl area. Lawn darts are lethal... if they hit the right area from the right angle - which befits a piece of sport equipment. Shuriken really aren't lethal at all. Atl-atl darts and plumbata darts are lethal, but don't have the advantages of even the short spears.

EDIT: I would let you use fast-draw swords on some of those darts, too.

Don't forget that Javelins are a thin spear. Darts are thicker, heavier made - half weight is more like a third length.
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Last edited by Bruno; 03-08-2012 at 02:08 PM.
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Old 03-08-2012, 03:23 PM   #4
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Default Re: Thrown Weapon (Dart) - What can I actually throw?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
Think weaponized lawn dart, not pub dart. Pub darts are shuriken.
Ahhh right! So the "You can use TW (Dart) as Games (Darts)" means the lawn dart games rather than pub darts game. That's generally what was throwing me off (that and it saying small)

Quote:
EDIT: I would let you use fast-draw swords on some of those darts, too.

Don't forget that Javelins are a thin spear. Darts are thicker, heavier made - half weight is more like a third length.
I think that'll be more logical here, fast-draw (knife) seems silly for a dart that size, but fast-draw sword seems to fit well enough.
If pub-darts are always shuriken (despite being thrown in a different manner) then ill have them be fast drawn with the knife version though. Although splitting too many hairs in this field just causes more tears in the "is it a long knife or a short sword" middle ground, so it isn't that important to make solid rules regarding this imo.
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Old 10-26-2017, 05:33 AM   #5
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Default Re: Thrown Weapon (Dart) - What can I actually throw?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellboy View Post
In terms of numbers, wondering if anything lighter than the 0.1 pound Shrike exists.

MA60 has a huge list of improvised throwing weapons but no weights.
These are 26gm each so just under 0.06 lbs
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Old 10-26-2017, 07:12 AM   #6
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Default Re: Thrown Weapon (Dart) - What can I actually throw?

Jarids. But IMHO I'd split the smallest of Thrown Weapon (Darts) weapons into Thrown Weapon (Shuriken) and the other into Thrown Weapon (Spears).
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Old 10-26-2017, 10:15 AM   #7
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Default Re: Thrown Weapon (Dart) - What can I actually throw?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellboy View Post
If http://howmuchdoesitweigh.blogspot.c...ams-or-34.html is true and a card deck is under 4oz then 52x4 per pound... 1/200 of a pound is 0.005 and BL 20 would let me throw a box of 2000 playing cards.
Yeah but card is Cr so....


Well unless we're talking death by paper cuts!
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Old 10-26-2017, 10:18 AM   #8
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Default Re: Thrown Weapon (Dart) - What can I actually throw?

As has already been identified, the main weapon covered by Thrown Weapon (Dart) is the "throwing dart" found on p. 77 of GURPS Low-Tech. Per p. 56 of GURPS Martial Arts, the official Fast-Draw specialty associated with this kind of dart is Fast-Draw (Knife). The archetypal throwing dart is the plumbata, which is often cited as 30-60cm in length, so if Fast-Draw (Knife) can whip out a large knife (30-38cm) or long knife (38-58cm), I'm fairly sure it can manage a dart. Fast-Draw (Sword) might make sense for the longest things termed "darts," but I'd stick with Fast-Draw (Knife) just to keep like with like – for the same reason why Fast-Draw (Sword) covers all one-handed swords regardless of length.
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Old 10-26-2017, 05:26 PM   #9
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Default Re: Thrown Weapon (Dart) - What can I actually throw?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellboy View Post
We are, MA60 let's business cards and folded solar bills do thrust-4 cutting

Credit/playing cards are the next step up, along with pennies.

Going with sewing needles for thrust-4 impale may be the ideal plan. They seem real light.

Feels like many problems could be avoided by assigning fractional armor divisors to most of the stuff on that page.
...Are those as thrown weapons, or as fist loads? Because those are not interchangeable roles.
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Old 10-26-2017, 05:57 PM   #10
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Default Re: Thrown Weapon (Dart) - What can I actually throw?

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
...Are those as thrown weapons, or as fist loads? Because those are not interchangeable roles.
Pretty sure he's referencing the damages listed for everyday items thrown with Throwing Art.
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