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Old 01-25-2017, 09:04 PM   #11
khorboth
 
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Default Re: Partial parry

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
That's exactly what it is, a Power Parry.

In this case it's something that requires the user have a Power, in this case Striker or Innate Attack bought as a sword.



However, you could also use the cinematic skill Parry Missile Weapons to cover this.
Parry Missile Weapons is still binary. Using it as a Power Parry with Innate Attack as sword could work, but I was not thinking to force the folk to buy sword skills that way. Folk usually just have sword skill, weapon master and a few chi powers to back it up. Perhaps there's an imbuement that can make a happy middle ground? I feel like it's close but not quite right.
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Old 01-25-2017, 09:46 PM   #12
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Default Re: Partial parry

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Originally Posted by khorboth View Post
Parry Missile Weapons is still binary.
So is the defense roll on a Power Parry.

I suggested PMW as the defense skill as it is a cinematic skill, you'd still reduce the damage of the attacking power by the damage of the defender's "attack" just as with a Power Parry.

Or if you want your cinematic fighters to be able to Power Parry, just make it a setting [switch] or treat it as an Extra effort in Combat ability. Spend an FP and make you Parry, the attack get's reduced by the damage the defender is capable of with their weapon.

Last edited by evileeyore; 01-25-2017 at 10:21 PM. Reason: [spelling error]
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Old 01-25-2017, 09:52 PM   #13
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Default Re: Partial parry

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Do you have a page or book reference on that? I have access to lots of books, but don't have a good mental index for where to find what yet.
There is no example of exactly that but powers 20-25 talks about the power modifiers and how to evaluate their costs. As example if you want your setting to have such for say spells, then requiring magic to have mundane counter measures is one way to do such.
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Old 01-25-2017, 09:56 PM   #14
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Default Re: Partial parry

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
So is the defense roll on a Power Parry.
But the effect is not binary. If you succeed you will still need enough power to stop the whole thing or the only effect will be to lessen the effect as the OP wishes.
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Old 01-25-2017, 10:20 PM   #15
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Default Re: Partial parry

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But the effect is not binary. If you succeed you will still need enough power to stop the whole thing or the only effect will be to lessen the effect as the OP wishes.
And?

So the sword wielder reduces the incoming attack damage by the amount of damage capable with the sword, just as though it were a Power.
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Old 01-25-2017, 10:41 PM   #16
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Default Re: Partial parry

I can see the use of something more gradient and less binary, but I'm not a fan of further complicating combat.

When someone rolls low damage, I often describe it as a partial parry. "You got your sword in the way, but not in time. His frost bolt clips your shoulder."
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Old 01-26-2017, 05:50 AM   #17
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Default Re: Partial parry

Ok, I think see evileeyore's idea more clearly now. Use Parry Missile Weapon to successfully parry. Once success is achieved, proceed like a power parry with damage reduced by damage of the weapon.

I think that'll do what I want. Only an extremely skilled swordsman will bother doing it over a dodge. Low damage attacks will be thwarted altogether. Cone attacks will be deflected by a broadsword. A double parry will work better than a single, a large weapon better than a small one. And it's not a big tweak to the system.

I thank you all very much. I think that's the rule I'm looking for.
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Old 01-26-2017, 05:51 AM   #18
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Default Re: Partial parry

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Originally Posted by MIB.6361 View Post
I can see the use of something more gradient and less binary, but I'm not a fan of further complicating combat.

When someone rolls low damage, I often describe it as a partial parry. "You got your sword in the way, but not in time. His frost bolt clips your shoulder."
I can see your point, but my players would rebel if I "took control of their characters" to even that extent.
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Old 01-26-2017, 07:10 AM   #19
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Default Re: Partial parry

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Originally Posted by khorboth View Post
I think that'll do what I want. Only an extremely skilled swordsman will bother doing it over a dodge. Low damage attacks will be thwarted altogether. Cone attacks will be deflected by a broadsword. A double parry will work better than a single, a large weapon better than a small one. And it's not a big tweak to the system.
You can also do Power Blocks, using the sword to brace the shield, rolling another cinematic skill to empower a shield; say the Power Blow* or Breaking Blow† using unarmed fighter picks up a table to block a blast of fire.


Honestly I'd either allow cinematic Skills to act as Power Parry and Power Block (even Power Dodge with say Flying Leap or Lizard Climb‡) or I'd allow for Power Defenses as an Extra Effort In Combat choice¶.

The first limits the Power Defenses to characters that have cinematic skills which often require an Unusual Background cost and costs FP§, or I'd just make it an Extra Effort setting switch which would mean anyone could attempt a Power Defense (best for high wuxia content campaigns where everyone is a martial artist).



* Which would be Power Blow -10 (before Power Block formula) as it needs to be instantaneous.
† With Breaking Blow I'd do a damage divisor rather than a regular Power block.
‡ Dodging in unusual directions (like up a wall). I'd also allow Light Walk in some circumstances, or maybe as a "I jump up onto the attack and Light Walk down it!" cinematic dodging maneuver (again penalized before the Power Dodge formula based on teh surface the character is "dodging" onto)
§ A Power Defense in these cases should always cost FP as most of the skills character could use cost FP... unless you are just declaring Parry Missile Weapon as the "Power Parry" skill (and then I'd set a Power Block skill as well, say Breaking Blow or Power Blow and then not charge an FP for this use).


Also, sorry, this whole time I've meant to say "use Precognitive Parry" as that's the one that let's you parry bullets and fast missile weapons.


¶ If you are just making it a setting switch of "everyone can Power Defend all the time" and not requiring any "special skills", I still recommend making it an Extra Effort choice as that will limit how often a non-Powered person does it, keeps having a Power as a special thing, but lets the 'normies' stand up to Powered fighters and have a chance.
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Old 01-26-2017, 01:24 PM   #20
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Default Re: Partial parry

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It looks pretty balanced, but doesn't quite fit. low-powered or low-damage attacks are completely negated by the parry. Having some damage break through is a sign that the enemy is powerful.
In settings where this occurs, "powerful" can mean physically strong, highly skilled, or a combination of the two. Typically, any of those three in possession of the defender will allow him to avoid the blowthrough effect. For strength, we've got the issue that any strike that will normally overwhelm the character's ST-limit to Parrying (something like BL lbs IIRC) will most likely break his weapon, which usually isn't the case with these. We could allow mlangsdorf's suggestion to forgo the defense bonus in order to prevent the weapon from breaking in the Parry. Things don't work quite as well with the skill case - while the +2 is good for reducing defense penalties, the mechanics just don't feel quite right here.

The important thing, however, is that the effect is often more on the attacker's side than the defender's. My suggestion, then, is for a new Enhancement, Overwhelming Attack. Irresistible Attack is +300% and means the attack cannot be Blocked, Dodged, or Parried. Going off the cost of Enhanced Defense, Block is worth +50% of that, Dodge +150%, and Parry +100% - thus, something that cannot be Blocked or Parried is arguably worth +150%. Overwhelming Attack can be Blocked or Parried, but if it is some fraction of the damage gets through anyway - multiply +150% by this fraction to determine the actual cost of Overwhelming Attack (typically, you'd use half damage, thus +75%). Cosmic Block/Parry or similar avoid the attack normally - boost base cost to +200% if this isn't the case.

Overwhelming Attack is also available for attacks that can't normally be Blocked or Parried, such as typical Ranged attacks. In that case, it has a base cost (100% of damage gets through) of only +50%, and applies against Blocks and Parries that have been enhanced by things like Cosmic (Defensive), Parry Missile Weapons, Precognitive Parry, and so forth to actually work. Use this same base cost if you also give the attack Blockable (in which case it can be Blocked and/or Parried without enhancement, but any such attempt still lets damage through, as do enhanced defences).

To successfully defend against an Overwhelming Attack, you need to either Dodge (which is unaffected) or have a Cosmic Block/Parry. To do so against a Cosmic Overwhelming Attack, I'd say that's worth a further +25% or so, making your Cosmic, Defensive be +75% instead of just +50%.

Now we've got a method of having an Innate Attack or similar that has this effect, but how do we allow characters to use it without such a trait? Well, here we'd want to call on the mechanics I came up with for an alternative to Imbuements, found here (which was apparently so amazing it left everyone dumbfounded, as there were plenty of views but no replies). There, with appropriate facilitating traits (TbaM/WM and a Perk would be likely for Overwhelming Attack, although you could replace the former with a high ST score, like Barbarians do for some traits in DF) and the spending of 1 FP per attack, the character gets the effect, but suffers a penalty of -1 per +10% (or fraction thereof) of Enhancement. You can adjust the FP cost to change difficulty - 0 FP is -1 per +5%, 2 FP is -1 per +20%, 3 FP is -1 per +30%, and so forth. You can buy the ability up as a Hard Technique, but can only negate half the penalty (round up - a -5 penalty can be bought down to -2). So, for the typical half-damage Overwhelming Attack +75% Enhancement, with 0 FP you can attack at -15, with 1 FP at -8, with 2 FP -4, with 3 FP -3, with 4 FP -2, or with 8 FP -1. A typical heavy brawler might buy the Technique to Default+4 and spend 1 FP on a Telegraphic Attack to strike at unmodified skill.

For the defender, technically Cosmic Parry (or similar) is -10 to skill with 0 FP, but that means -15 to hit (enough to impose a -7 to all defenses) is negated by -5 to Parry, which is hardly fair. Instead (as I just recently edited the linked thread to note), a character can either use his own level with Overwhelming Attack or a generic Cosmic Active Defense Technique. Optionally, adjust the penalty both for attack and defense by the relative ST of the characters involved. Compared to the "base" -15 to skill, a 20% (x1.2) difference is +2 (+2 for the stronger character, -2 for the weaker), 50% (x1.5) is +4, 100% (x2) is +5, 150% (x2.5) is +6, and 300% (x4) is +7. These are minimum values - against a character with ST 10, ST 9-11 is +0, ST 12-14 is +2, ST 15-19 is +4, ST 20-24 is +5, ST 25-39 is +6, and ST 40+ is +7. Multiply the nominal bonus by the fraction of damage that gets through on a successful defense, rounding normally. Adjust the actual skill based on the penalty (before Technique) actually suffered. This bonus is added on after any bonuses from Technique, but can't give a net bonus.


As an example, we have Brawny McMusclehead up against Speedy Swashbuckler. Both know (or this is a campaign where no Enabling Traits are needed for Overwhelming Attack) Overwhelming Attack, with Brawny having put [5] in the Technique for a +4 and Speedy having not invested anything into the Technique. Brawny has ST 20, Speedy has ST 12. Brawny will generally go for 50% damage, which is -8 to skill, becoming -4 thanks to the points he's invested in his Technique. With a greater than 50% difference in ST, that would normally give Brawny a +4 to skill, Speedy a -4, but those become +2 instead. Brawny goes Telegraphic, for a net +2 to hit (but in all cases Speedy gets a +2 to defend). If Speedy opts to Parry normally, he takes half damage on any success. If he instead opts to use Overwhelming Attack for his Parry (to negate Brawny's use of it), he's at a total of -10 to skill - -8 for the 50% Overwhelming Attack, -2 for the difference in ST - which translates to a -5 to defend. If he wants to avoid all damage, he'll likely be better off with a Dodge. If for some reason he wanted to use Overwhelming Attack against Brawny, he would attack at -10 for that same 50% (-8 for Overwhelming Attack, -2 for difference in ST). Brawny could either Parry normally and take half damage on a success, or he could use Overwhelming Attack to negate Speedy's - and he would do so at only -1 to Parry (-8 for Overwhelming Attack, +4 for his Technique, +2 for difference in ST).
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