Basic Set: CIA/FBI/NSA

[AvaYan]

Hi there,

according to Basic the FBI has "Legal Enforcement Powers" at its 10 points version. What do other agencies such as the CIA and the NSA have? Is it "Legal Immunity"? Have they got any "Legal Enforcement Powers" at all?

[AlexanderHowl]

Officially, they have no official law enforcement powers and, when it comes to US citizens, they have no official legal immunity. They can legally detain you until law enforcement comes, but that is just a federal version of citizen's arrest, and they do not have to give you Miranda warnings.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Officially, they have no official law enforcement powers and, when it comes to US citizens, they have no official legal immunity. They can legally detain you until law enforcement comes, but that is just a federal version of citizen's arrest, and they do not have to give you Miranda warnings.

Unofficially, they can probably arrange to be deputized as US Marshals (like the Eugenic Security Police in the 'Phoenix Project' setting from 3e GURPS Psionics) if they have a job that requires LEP, it's just that the vast majority (I suspect) either don't have jobs that require it, or operate outside the US, where a US Marshal's form of LEP does not apply.

[ericthered]

The CIA's mission is the collection of intelligence for the US in foreign countries. As a secondary function, they are the primary actors for covert action in foreign countries. If the CIA suspects a US citizen of say, spying, they are supposed to reach out to law enforcement to make the arrest (and possibly conduct the investigation, I'm not sure).

The NSA is about intercepting and interpreting communications to gain information. They shouldn't be putting boots on the ground in the vast majority of cases, relying instead on other organizations to take action on the information the NSA provides.

Separation is supposed to be kept between law enforcement and the above organizations, and when it isn't, there is a political fuss. They are supposed to be aimed at foreigners, not citizens, and the US government very much cares about the difference, if only because citizens are protected by the bill of rights.

As for Federal agencies with legal enforcement powers, You could look at the secret service and the drug enforcement administration. There are also any smaller and more niche agencies, like the United States Park Police, the National Park Service rangers, and Internal Revenue Service, Criminal Investigation, and the myriad internal police of the military branches.

[Culture20]

The NSA is military, and expressly prohibited from acting as law enforcement in any capacity.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by ericthered

The CIA's mission is the collection of intelligence for the US in foreign countries. As a secondary function, they are the primary actors for covert action in foreign countries. If the CIA suspects a US citizen of say, spying, they are supposed to reach out to law enforcement to make the arrest (and possibly conduct the investigation, I'm not sure).

The NSA is about intercepting and interpreting communications to gain information. They shouldn't be putting boots on the ground in the vast majority of cases, relying instead on other organizations to take action on the information the NSA provides.

Separation is supposed to be kept between law enforcement and the above organizations, and when it isn't, there is a political fuss. They are supposed to be aimed at foreigners, not citizens, and the US government very much cares about the difference, if only because citizens are protected by the bill of rights.

As for Federal agencies with legal enforcement powers, You could look at the secret service and the drug enforcement administration. There are also any smaller and more niche agencies, like the United States Park Police, the National Park Service rangers, and Internal Revenue Service, Criminal Investigation, and the myriad internal police of the military branches.

The problem is that calling on a LEO officializes the problem and the CIA may want to attempt to turn the subject. Is the prospect of prison terrifying enough to make them turn back on their employers? Maybe, if they threatened to also tell every prisoner what he was in the system for and convinced the spy that that is likely to be taken as an excuse to bully him. But even so they have told his employers to write him off and start looking for a replacement.

[AvaYan]

So the CIA and the NSA probably have Security Clearance alone, while the FBI also have Enforcement Powers. Is it? Should the CIA and the NSA have Legal Immunity?

[AlexanderHowl]

No, they should not, as they are still technically subject to all the laws of the USA. CIA officials who engage in illegal activities, such as kidnapping and torture, should have a Secret, as they can technically be arrested and tried for their activities in both the USA and internationally (the Secret is usually balanced by a Patron who usually helps them avoid such issues). Congress has tended to tailor the law to fit the needs of the NSA, so they usually are doing lawful activities, even if most people would disagree. FBI agents will also have Security Clearance, at least Secret Clearance, and some will have Top Secret.

[Daigoro]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Congress has tended to tailor the law to fit the needs of the NSA, so they usually are doing lawful activities, even if most people would disagree.

If they're performing surveillance activities that in practice only NSA agents are allowed to perform, that sounds like Legal Enforcement Powers to me.

[AlexanderHowl]

Not really, as they cannot arrest anyone, so they have no enforcement powers. At best, they are acting on behalf of law enforcement under very strict guidelines.