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Old 05-26-2019, 08:37 AM   #1
MikMod
 
Join Date: May 2019
Default +1 IQ collar - for my wolf?

(ITL p94) 'an animal cannot be trained beyond its actual IQ'

But with the magic collar, my wolf's IQ would actually be 7, correct? I mean, wizards can use the +1 IQ item to master higher level spells than their 'natural' or 'base' IQ, so it really does increase IQ, in terms of learning things, right...?

:)
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Old 05-26-2019, 09:01 AM   #2
Chris Rice
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
Default Re: +1 IQ collar - for my wolf?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikMod View Post
(ITL p94) 'an animal cannot be trained beyond its actual IQ'

But with the magic collar, my wolf's IQ would actually be 7, correct? I mean, wizards can use the +1 IQ item to master higher level spells than their 'natural' or 'base' IQ, so it really does increase IQ, in terms of learning things, right...?

:)
What magic collar are you talking about? Do you mean the Greater Magic Item which enhances Attributes from ITL p161 or something else? If the former, I'm not sure I'd allow it to work on an animal. Even if I did it a very expensive way to make a wolf a little smarter. What would be the point?
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Old 05-26-2019, 09:22 AM   #3
MikMod
 
Join Date: May 2019
Default Re: +1 IQ collar - for my wolf?

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Originally Posted by Chris Rice View Post
What magic collar are you talking about? Do you mean the Greater Magic Item which enhances Attributes from ITL p161 or something else? If the former, I'm not sure I'd allow it to work on an animal. Even if I did it a very expensive way to make a wolf a little smarter. What would be the point?
Yes - the magic item. I'm thinking if it works on animals you could have a trained wolf/bear/etc as almost a character but probably more loyal. I'm thinking a couple of these on some trained bears or tigers could provide some excellent bodyguards for a King or Duke...?
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Old 05-26-2019, 10:04 AM   #4
Chris Rice
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
Default Re: +1 IQ collar - for my wolf?

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Originally Posted by MikMod View Post
Yes - the magic item. I'm thinking if it works on animals you could have a trained wolf/bear/etc as almost a character but probably more loyal. I'm thinking a couple of these on some trained bears or tigers could provide some excellent bodyguards for a King or Duke...?
I see know reason why not. Could make for an interesting ally. Or perhaps a player could be one of these enhanced animals. 😊
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Old 05-26-2019, 10:14 AM   #5
MikMod
 
Join Date: May 2019
Default Re: +1 IQ collar - for my wolf?

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I see know reason why not. Could make for an interesting ally. Or perhaps a player could be one of these enhanced animals. 😊
Hello Iorik Byrnison! :)
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Old 05-26-2019, 12:38 PM   #6
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: +1 IQ collar - for my wolf?

With either animals or humans, attribute enhancing enchantments raises the question what it allows other than a bonus on rolls. Most of the rules that mention it say that it doesn't let you learn talents with prerequisites at the boosted levels, and personally I think that's a good limit to keep (or else, if you really want magic to be able to raise attributes for long-term purposes, make that a more expensive/difficult enchantment).

With such a limit, I think it'd also apply to animals' training/cognition descriptions. That is, the pet gets a higher IQ for making rolls, but doesn't suddenly become able to be trained as if it were a different species. ... Or that would require a more powerful enchantment to be researched / known and used. ... Unless, of course, the GM wants it to be able to do that...
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Old 05-26-2019, 12:41 PM   #7
MikMod
 
Join Date: May 2019
Default Re: +1 IQ collar - for my wolf?

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Most of the rules that mention it say that it doesn't let you learn talents with prerequisites at the boosted levels
Thanks Skarg - I didn't see that anywhere - is it specifically mentioned? I'd assumed a +1 IQ ring was the most useful thing a wizard could get hold of, but without it really making your IQ higher, it would be much less use.
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Old 05-26-2019, 01:05 PM   #8
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: +1 IQ collar - for my wolf?

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Originally Posted by MikMod View Post
Thanks Skarg - I didn't see that anywhere - is it specifically mentioned? I'd assumed a +1 IQ ring was the most useful thing a wizard could get hold of, but without it really making your IQ higher, it would be much less use.
I think so, but I'm not finding it at the moment... maybe I'm mistaken?

It does say that spells and potions that reduce your attributes don't remove your ability to use talents, on ITL 47.

And it says they don't help when enchanting magic items on ITL 150.

And it says they don't help when compelling demons on ITL 143.
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Old 05-26-2019, 01:28 PM   #9
MikMod
 
Join Date: May 2019
Default Re: +1 IQ collar - for my wolf?

On the other hand (p19) a confusion spell which reduces IQ WILL stop a mage using higher level spells until they get the IQ back, and I would assume, others using their high IQ talents. (That seems to contradict p47 although looking at it again p47 seems to be primarily about permanent loss)

(ITL p45) talks about needing to meet the minimum IQ requirement for a spell or talent, but does not mention no spells or magic items like it does when dealing with demons or making magic items. And again on p144, it is just 'the wizards IQ' - no mention of no magic items to be included.

Also p144 - casting spells from books, no mention of base IQ only, just the wizards IQ (presumably including magic items). Even researching new spells (also p144) no mention of not including a +1/2/3 IQ item in that.


I suppose the main thing here is to compare to +DX and +ST items. In those cases, the item basically gives you an actual stat increase for all intents and purposes - so why shouldn't an IQ item?

Last edited by MikMod; 05-26-2019 at 01:45 PM. Reason: added reference
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Old 05-26-2019, 04:36 PM   #10
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: +1 IQ collar - for my wolf?

In the absence of someone finding a rule that says what I was thinking, I suppose it's up to the GM (as always), or some future clarifying note from the publisher.

I and the people I played with tended to dislike and not include attribute enhancers, and from that perspective would point out the note on ITL 161: "These are thoroughly useful items, and GMs may wish to limit their availability drastically."

Allowing an IQ enhancer to let people learn spells does open up some odd exploits which different people might say was cool/interesting or annoying, e.g. a group or guild hall which has one might pass the item around from wizard to wizard, allowing the entire group to act for some purposes as if the entire group had higher IQ, but were limited to using it one at a time (whoever has the item at the moment).
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