Creating Military Culture From Scratch

[Sindri]

Many SF space militaries aren't directly descended from traditional militaries either because they develop from another organization or because they are created from scratch. Now naturally they do take inspiration from traditional militaries in organization and other matters but they can also differ so how could such a military differ in terms of it's culture from one that is directly descended from modern militaries? What sort of changes might be an improvement if you are going to redesign everything anyway? What sort of changes would people without actual military experience try that actually are bad ideas? What sort of organizations make good candidates for the ancestor of a space military? What happens when you take a survey organization, space police, space customs officials or space postal workers and turn them into a military?

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by Sindri

Many SF space militaries aren't directly descended from traditional militaries either because they develop from another organization or because they are created from scratch. Now naturally they do take inspiration from traditional militaries in organization and other matters but they can also differ so how could such a military differ in terms of it's culture from one that is directly descended from modern militaries? What sort of changes might be an improvement if you are going to redesign everything anyway? What sort of changes would people without actual military experience try that actually are bad ideas? What sort of organizations make good candidates for the ancestor of a space military? What happens when you take a survey organization, space police, space customs officials or space postal workers and turn them into a military?

The biggest change I can think of is it likely wouldn't have the commissioned vs non-commissioned split.

[Gardensnake]

One change I would institute is a truly self sufficient military in that they manufacture their own equipment to their needs not a civilian government doing it for them.

William

[Sindri]

Originally Posted by ericthered

The biggest change I can think of is it likely wouldn't have the commissioned vs non-commissioned split.

Yeah the commissioned/non-commissioned thing was one of the main things I was thinking about when making this thread. It's a rather odd feature when viewed outside of it's historical context.

Originally Posted by Gardensnake

One change I would institute is a truly self sufficient military in that they manufacture their own equipment to their needs not a civilian government doing it for them.

William

Yeah I can see that having advantages.

[Purple Haze]

They might well be created by merging several existing organizations leading to redundant and confusing ranks and titles.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Sindri

Yeah the commissioned/non-commissioned thing was one of the main things I was thinking about when making this thread. It's a rather odd feature when viewed outside of it's historical context.

It has a significant practical advantage, albeit a rather cold-blooded one. Sometimes it is necessary to send men to their deaths, and that's a lot harder if they are personal friends of the commander doing it.

Yeah I can see that having advantages.

That has a disadvantage. It makes it more possible for the military to rebel against civilian control.

[Sindri]

Originally Posted by Purple Haze

They might well be created by merging several existing organizations leading to redundant and confusing ranks and titles.

That, and other causes can definitely cause awkward rank systems.

Originally Posted by johndallman

It has a significant practical advantage, albeit a rather cold-blooded one. Sometimes it is necessary to send men to their deaths, and that's a lot harder if they are personal friends of the commander doing it.

You can achieve that without all the features of the commissioned/non-commissioned split.

Originally Posted by johndallman

That has a disadvantage. It makes it more possible for the military to rebel against civilian control.

Yep.

[vicky_molokh]

In Æthereal Sun's Justicariate, the Zemplari Troops ('military') was formed not out of the standing army meant to protect against external threat, but rather from an internal troops equivalent merging with surveying/scouting organisations. Thus there is no clear line between police and the military, and this 'military' is trained to properly handle conflicts involving civilians, and is generally less ruthless than standing armies. On the other hand, they're more expensive for the state to maintain due to all the extra training and biomods installed.

Another trait would be lack of hazing. I heard that in this sense the Gurkha trainings and in-group relationships are harsh but fair, completely unlike that depicted in, say, FMJ.

Different treatment of mixed-sex units and/or non-mainstream sexuality: civilian people are usually totally okay working in a mixed-sex office or studying at a university; a military formed out of people with such mentality are unlikely to develop the sex-related forms of bigotry that are so common in modern militaries.

[Frost]

Originally Posted by Sindri

Many SF space militaries aren't directly descended from traditional militaries either because they develop from another organization or because they are created from scratch. Now naturally they do take inspiration from traditional militaries in organization and other matters but they can also differ so how could such a military differ in terms of it's culture from one that is directly descended from modern militaries?

Do you have a specific culture in mind? A specific role?

I think that these things will be very dependent upon the parent culture and the doctrine envisaged by the services founders. However I suspect that common variations seen in civilian attempts to reinvent a military tradition may include some or all of the folowing:
Simplified rank structures.
A less pronounced split between officers and NCOs.
No direct entry for officers.
Election of officers and NCOs.
Non-standard rank titles, especialy positional titles i.e. Company Comander instead of Captain.

All of these have in fact been tried historicaly by reserve, scratch or paramilitary forces (except the positional titles for officers, which was tried by a regular army) with varying degrees of sucess. The only two up there that might not survive that long in reality are the continuity between officers and NCOs and election for officers.

[Sindri]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

In Æthereal Sun's Justicariate, the Zemplari Troops ('military') was formed not out of the standing army meant to protect against external threat, but rather from an internal troops equivalent merging with surveying/scouting organisations. Thus there is no clear line between police and the military, and this 'military' is trained to properly handle conflicts involving civilians, and is generally less ruthless than standing armies. On the other hand, they're more expensive for the state to maintain due to all the extra training and biomods installed.

Are the Zemplari troops normally assigned to police or military duties at any one time or do they handle both at the same time?

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Another trait would be lack of hazing. I heard that in this sense the Gurkha trainings and in-group relationships are harsh but fair, completely unlike that depicted in, say, FMJ.

Different treatment of mixed-sex units and/or non-mainstream sexuality: civilian people are usually totally okay working in a mixed-sex office or studying at a university; a military formed out of people with such mentality are unlikely to develop the sex-related forms of bigotry that are so common in modern militaries.

These both seem likely.

Originally Posted by Frost

Do you have a specific culture in mind? A specific role?

No.

Originally Posted by Frost

I think that these things will be very dependent upon the parent culture and the doctrine envisaged by the services founders. However I suspect that common variations seen in civilian attempts to reinvent a military tradition may include some or all of the folowing:
Simplified rank structures.
A less pronounced split between officers and NCOs.
No direct entry for officers.
Election of officers and NCOs.
Non-standard rank titles, especialy positional titles i.e. Company Comander instead of Captain.

All of these have in fact been tried historicaly by reserve, scratch or paramilitary forces (except the positional titles for officers, which was tried by a regular army) with varying degrees of sucess. The only two up there that might not survive that long in reality are the continuity between officers and NCOs and election for officers.

Useful list. I get why elections for officers would have difficulty lasting long but why do you think the same of continuity between officers and NCOs?