Fighting on high speed

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by qchap

Thank you, it'll almost be my final decision! I didn' know about different slam rules in DFRPG, separate thanks for this!

Those are the Slam rules from DFRPG. Because HP can get crazy inflated in comparison to the PCs "proper" mass (ie HP far exceed ST x 1.3), instead of the (HPxVelocity)/100 calculation, it's just "thr + Speed Bonus". So the faster and/or stronger character has a greater chance of knocking down their opponent, but both individuals still take Slam damage. I've been using the new Slam rules from DFRPG exclusively and I gotta say, they are loads easier.

In this case the speedsters Move is 20, so if he moves the 20 he'd have a damage bonus of +6.

That he takes that bonus back as damage to himself is just my way of "balancing" it. And I'd apply it to swing and thrust, no difference.*

[EDIT]
For weapons... Hmmm. I think if the damage bonus exceeds the weapon's weight I'd treat it as Parrying a heavier weapon. So give it a chance to break.
[/EDIT]

And it should have drawback too, and I think attack penalties should be applied.

It's a Move and Attack Maneuver, so it has it's own penalties already.

Though, if he practices at it enough I'd let him buy a power-up Advantage, Hit on the Run...


Hit on the Run [10/skill]

Prerequisites: Any Melee Weapon/Unarmed skill, and Speedster Super Power or Trained by a Master or Weapon Master†.

This power-up lets you make a full-skill attack with a Move and Attack maneuver (p. B366), instead of being at -4 and having your skill capped at 9. Further you have practiced striking at this speed so often that you do not suffer the standard -2 to DX-based rolls for performing multiple actions. However you still cannot retreat or parry with the weapon/limb you attacked with (or Dodge if your attack was a kick). If your skill is Sumo, you may double the speed damage bonus for Slams.‡

Moreover, if your previous maneuver had greater Movement than this turn you may use the speed of that turn rather than this one for damage bonus calculations.

You must buy this power-up for one specific Melee Weapon/Unarmed skill.

Perks: Maintain Inertia: Use your speed from this turn or last turns in damage calculations.
Speedster [Skill] Attack: Do not suffer -2 to DX-based rolls when attacking using this skill in a Move and Attack maneuver.
Super Sumo Slam!: Double your speed bonus for Slam calculations when using the Sumo skill.
Unique Technique (Running Attack) [1].
Techniques: Running Attack (H) Skill+0 [6].




* I think I might start doing this for everyone... I like the idea that running up on a foe should give you something besides just "I was over there, now I'm in your face" and I run cinematic/Action style games anyway... Also, it gives a decent bonus to ye olde All Out Attack if they have to make a full Move, and I'm all about giving my Players rope to hang their Characters with...

† Kept these in there so non-Speedsters heros can get in on the "run up on a foe" action.

‡If you're using the standard Basic Slam rules, just double the Speedsters speed for Slam calculations if he's using Sumo.

[qchap]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

Those are the Slam rules from DFRPG. Because HP can get crazy inflated in comparison to the PCs "proper" mass (ie HP far exceed ST x 1.3), instead of the (HPxVelocity)/100 calculation, it's just "thr + Speed Bonus". So the faster and/or stronger character has a greater chance of knocking down their opponent, but both individuals still take Slam damage. I've been using the new Slam rules from DFRPG exclusively and I gotta say, they are loads easier.

In this case the speedsters Move is 20, so if he moves the 20 he'd have a damage bonus of +6.

That he takes that bonus back as damage to himself is just my way of "balancing" it. And I'd apply it to swing and thrust, no difference.*

[EDIT]
For weapons... Hmmm. I think if the damage bonus exceeds the weapon's weight I'd treat it as Parrying a heavier weapon. So give it a chance to break.
[/EDIT]


It's a Move and Attack Maneuver, so it has it's own penalties already.

Though, if he practices at it enough I'd let him buy a power-up Advantage, Hit on the Run...


Hit on the Run [10/skill]

Prerequisites: Any Melee Weapon/Unarmed skill, and Speedster Super Power or Trained by a Master or Weapon Master†.

This power-up lets you make a full-skill attack with a Move and Attack maneuver (p. B366), instead of being at -4 and having your skill capped at 9. Further you have practiced striking at this speed so often that you do not suffer the standard -2 to DX-based rolls for performing multiple actions. However you still cannot retreat or parry with the weapon/limb you attacked with (or Dodge if your attack was a kick). If your skill is Sumo, you may double the speed damage bonus for Slams.‡

Moreover, if your previous maneuver had greater Movement than this turn you may use the speed of that turn rather than this one for damage bonus calculations.

You must buy this power-up for one specific Melee Weapon/Unarmed skill.

Perks: Maintain Inertia: Use your speed from this turn or last turns in damage calculations.
Speedster [Skill] Attack: Do not suffer -2 to DX-based rolls when attacking using this skill in a Move and Attack maneuver.
Super Sumo Slam!: Double your speed bonus for Slam calculations when using the Sumo skill.
Unique Technique (Running Attack) [1].
Techniques: Running Attack (H) Skill+0 [6].




* I think I might start doing this for everyone... I like the idea that running up on a foe should give you something besides just "I was over there, now I'm in your face" and I run cinematic/Action style games anyway... Also, it gives a decent bonus to ye olde All Out Attack if they have to make a full Move, and I'm all about giving my Players rope to hang their Characters with...

† Kept these in there so non-Speedsters heros can get in on the "run up on a foe" action.

‡If you're using the standard Basic Slam rules, just double the Speedsters speed for Slam calculations if he's using Sumo.

Really interesting, thank you very much!

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

Check the Speed/Range table and add that value. Most reasonable idea.

It seems like a good point. I think I'll start trying with it, and maybe will switch later, if something goes wrong. Thanks!

[Plane]

Originally Posted by qchap

I think it wouldn't be correct to just use all of this rules as is, because it's too unrealistic. I think that a punch at speed 20 should be much more lethal, than an ordinary punch.

Using the rules as-is is correct in terms of rules-as-written, but in terms of realism: probably the simplest way is to make the stop-thrust bonus (1 per 2 yards) mutual, so if people thrusting at you get +10 damage, you get +10 at them as well.

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

When using a weapon for a Slam, the weapon takes the damage (and may break) at the speed this character is going. For such an attack, use the higher value of his Thrust or his Slam damage.

There are 2 ways which you can get slam damage with a weapon, MA107 and MA112. Which way are you talking about?

107 isn't actually a slam, it only says to substitute the damage you do, not to take damage as if it was a slam.

[Black Leviathan]

From the old speed tables I remember Speed MV 20 being around 50 MPH? Picture being in the back of a speeding pickup truck with your friends holding your legs and you punching someone as you drive by. First of all it's not easy to make that punch at that speed. Next you're not going to punch through them or knock them into orbit. You're going to wallup them but your fist won't go through a steel insert jacket and you'll probably hurt yourself a bit if you don't land that punch right or if you hit something harder than a jaw. I think you can probably scale damage with that charging horse. Maybe +3 to damage, -3 to hit? Or reasonably close to those.

Also anyone who understands that your guy is riding a rail is going to have a really easy time in that fight. I'd give a bonus to active defense for anyone who understands that leaning away from the rail makes it nearly impossible for your super to hit them.

[a humble lich]

A speed of 20 is closer to 40 mph. One yard per second is almost exactly 2 mph.

I like evileeyore's idea of using the speed table to get bonus damage and applying it to both parties. in this case, it means the attacker will take 6 damage to the hand, crippling it unless they have some kind of protection. Which makes sense, I think punching a street sign from the back of a moving truck sounds like a really really bad idea.

If the attacker is using a weapon, I might say that the weapon takes that damage and the attacker takes a fraction of it, because jousting from a motorcycle would hurt. Some kind of ST check would probably be required to not drop the weapon too.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Black Leviathan

From the old speed tables I remember Speed MV 20 being around 50 MPH? Picture being in the back of a speeding pickup truck with your friends holding your legs and you punching someone as you drive by. First of all it's not easy to make that punch at that speed. Next you're not going to punch through them or knock them into orbit. You're going to wallup them but your fist won't go through a steel insert jacket and you'll probably hurt yourself a bit if you don't land that punch right or if you hit something harder than a jaw. I think you can probably scale damage with that charging horse. Maybe +3 to damage, -3 to hit? Or reasonably close to those.

In contrast, if someone waiting by the side of the road does a Stop-Thrust against you, they'll get a full +10 to damage, and it won't cause them any harm unless you use MA's optional rule of treating the flexibleDR2 of the skull as hardDR3 so "hurting yourself" applies.

Originally Posted by a humble lich

I like evileeyore's idea of using the speed table to get bonus damage and applying it to both parties.

Instead of, or in addition to, the +1 damage per 2 yards for Stop Thrust?