Wrestling in Armor - A vid for you low-tech guys

[Dangerious P. Cats]

Cheers for the videos, we should totally stat these as martial arts styles.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Cheomesh

There's more but I don't mean to spam :p

Don't worry . . . this is interesting enough to GURPS fans that I'm immunizing you against the Oppressive Fist of Link-Dumping Punishment if you want to post more links.

[kenclary]

Originally Posted by Cheomesh

Polearm in armor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8myj3zgoCg

Parry, followed by Sweep with polearm. Foe is stunned (or, is that only for Judo Throw?), or perhaps just at penalties for being prone on their next turn. Finish with a thrust to face.

[aesir23]

Originally Posted by Dangerious P. Cats

Cheers for the videos, we should totally stat these as martial arts styles.

Don't you think these are just Late Medieval Knightly Combat (or possibly Longsword Fighting) and Pollaxe Fighting, respectively?

[EDIT] Not that I'm opposed to writing up more styles of course, I just wonder what would distinguish the styles shown in these videos from the styles already written.

[Verjigorm]

Originally Posted by aesir23

Don't you think these are just Late Medieval Knightly Combat (or possibly Longsword Fighting) and Pollaxe Fighting, respectively?

[EDIT] Not that I'm opposed to writing up more styles of course, I just wonder what would distinguish the styles shown in these videos from the styles already written.

And also Longsword fighting!

[Cheomesh]

More; where have you been?!

Sickle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmy7OCUIPp4

Messer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38sVdx7nzhQ

Longsword: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj4Ng6DBfrg

More Longsword: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC5FIyfI8TA

Five Weapons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TzdtyMC7ek

Four Messer Sources: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHEs2m0IXAk

Poleaxe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTVC25hYJaY

Even MORE Messer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWISsk0cy74

Staff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gzgi8kB6cPU

Ringen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvkPLvoH1vI

Yet MORE Messer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmq_Oc7RT48

Longsword Technique - Zornhau Master Cut: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ainzFa7mHc

Longsword Technique - Krumphau Master Cut: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bulXaHzNJ9Q

Longsword Technique - Schielhau Master Cut: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhTY5cLB9ZU

Longsword Technique - Duplieren and Mutieren: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6CJ-ZCnMSY

Viking Sword and Shield: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWSTx0tZHCU

Another Viking Sword and Shield: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8SRaa33otU

Sword and Buckler: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmVcLYlwPuM

Sword and Buckler: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaEZP0KL0Ko

There are more, but a certain lady calls my attention ;)

M.

[aesir23]

Originally Posted by Cheomesh

[Snip]several awesome WMA video clips [/Snip]

Great, now I'll procrastinate even longer on my final paper. Thanks a lot.

[Dangerious P. Cats]

Originally Posted by aesir23

Don't you think these are just Late Medieval Knightly Combat (or possibly Longsword Fighting) and Pollaxe Fighting, respectively?

[EDIT] Not that I'm opposed to writing up more styles of course, I just wonder what would distinguish the styles shown in these videos from the styles already written.

Short answer, no. Long answer nnnnnnnnnnoooooooooooooooo.

Basically the knightly fighting styles are more representative of what modern re-enactors with access to a vareity of manuals across a variety of times and places do, rather than what would have been done by a historical knight. This is not a bad approach for Martial arts itself, since having three or four different European styles for each weapon would have been a bit cumbersom for the book. On the whole having more variety in the styles, such as armoured and unarmoured longsword from different cultures is the domain of historical books, companions and forum threads. I agree with the way martial arts presents the styles, I just feel that we need to be aware of its limitations.

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

This collection of videos is handy to have in one thread. I wish more of this was available when we started researching GURPS Martial Arts. So much of it was just coming out, books just getting translated, copies just dropping from the budget-breaking level to the may-as-well-get-one level . . .

Originally Posted by Dangerious P. Cats

I agree with the way martial arts presents the styles, I just feel that we need to be aware of its limitations.

One game limitation to keep in mind is differentiation. Several longsword styles or poleaxe styles or whatever (say, kenjutsu schools) will look differently in reality, but in game terms, they may have exactly identical skills, techniques, and perks. If the only difference is the name on the Style Familiarity, it's not particularly useful.

I do think more styles would be useful, but personally I'd go about them the way that we suggested for ryuha - glom all the weaponry taught by one teacher or one school into one style, and give that a Style Familiarity. The variations in each school's (or fectbucht's) weaponry, techniques for those weapons, order of instruction, weapon combos, etc. will probably be just enough to differentiate them.

Basically, instead of having 3-4 poleaxe styles, 10-12 longsword styles, 3 shortsword styles, 6 dagger styles, etc. and then combining them, you have Silver's style and the Wallenstein style and so on. That allows for a little more character differentiation, less bookkeeping, and allows people who aren't WMA (or EMA, for that matter) enthusiasts to make a character. Masters of Defence Weapon Training is a good example of this approach, but it can work across the board for any culture.

[Dangerious P. Cats]

Originally Posted by Toadkiller_Dog

Basically, instead of having 3-4 poleaxe styles, 10-12 longsword styles, 3 shortsword styles, 6 dagger styles, etc. and then combining them, you have Silver's style and the Wallenstein style and so on. That allows for a little more character differentiation, less bookkeeping, and allows people who aren't WMA (or EMA, for that matter) enthusiasts to make a character. Masters of Defence Weapon Training is a good example of this approach, but it can work across the board for any culture.

This isn't a bad approach but it's worth asking what students would have learnt historically. Especailly when you get to master of defence it's likly that they learnt multiple systems to increase their teaching oppertunities, it's also possible that students would come to a master of defence and ask them to learn only one or two weapons.

As far as stating the style in the first post (this one) I'd hammer this out as my best guess. I've not included cinematic skills or techniques since I'm not sure what to include for them.

Skills: Two handed sword, judo, brawling
Techniques: Arm lock, Armed grapple (two handed sword), Breakfall (judo), Close Combat (two handed sword), retain weapon (two handed sword),Sweep, Targetted attack (sword thrust to chinks in armour), Targetted attack (sword thrust to face)
Perks: Armour familiarity (judo), Grip mastery (sword), weapon adaptation (broadsword with two handed sword skill), special set up (sword parry -> judo throw)

Optional traits

Skills: fast draw (knife), knife