Do Innate Attacks with Melee Attack scale with increased Reach? - Page 2

~~evileeyore~~ · 10-11-2019, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony

It doesn't require the gadget limitation. It requires a limitation that says it can be targeted...

I disagree.

Anthony · 10-11-2019, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plane

Where's it talk about melee IAs being untargetable?

It's an advantage. Advantages can only be targeted if there's a rule or limitation that explicitly permits doing so.

Plane · 10-12-2019, 02:16 PM

B62:

Innate Attacks are treated as ranged attacks unless given the Melee Attack
limitation;
then they’re considered melee weapons.

The shift of the root noun from "attack" to "weapon" seems notable here. P103 uses it too:

Melee Attack turns an attack advantage into a powered melee weapon

Obviously though there should be a difference between being able to smack/grab someone's Thrusting Attack (Melee) spear and smack/grab someone's Burning Attack (Melee) flaming sword...

An easy dividing line there is anything which can buy ST-based (P103: Crushing, Cutting, or Impaling) should probably be like a physical weapon, while the other kinds (Burning, Corrosion, Fatigue or Piercing) wouldn't be targetable unless someone had "Affects Insubstantial" attacks?

Another thing it might be tied to is the "Cannot Parry" limitation... if people can't actually grab your energy sword because it lacks physical substance, then your sword probably shouldn't be able to deflect physical substances either.

I wonder if you could even stack Melee Attack (Destructive Parry) +10% with Cannot Parry -5% ... ie you can make parry rolls only for the purpose of getting a free attack against whatever is attacking you, but success only results in damaging the attacking implement, not actually deflecting the attack?

This also might fall into 0-point feature territory where what you can parry and what can grapple/disarm your weapon are tied together, but vary based on element.

Like for example if you have some kind of Burning Attack (Melee Attack) which can parry other flaming swords but not metal swords, then it could make sense to say that other flaming swords can use Beat or Disarm against your flaming sword, but metal ones could not. But at the same time, you wouldn't then be able to use Beats/Disarms against metal swords either.

If it was a one-direction benefit of some kind (the flaming sword can disarm/beat/parry metal swords, but the metal sword cannot disarm/beat parry the flaming sword) then that's probably worth some points, probably tied somewhat to the "No Active Defense" enhancement except only for parries/blocks, like the reverse of when you buy Parryable/Blockable for ranged attacks.

Anthony · 10-12-2019, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plane

The shift of the root noun from "attack" to "weapon" seems notable here.

Unarmed attacks are also classed as weapons.

Plane · 10-12-2019, 02:37 PM

Maybe whether your Burning Attack causes "fiery fingernails" or a "burning butterknife" (both c-range melee interpretations) could be some kind of 0-point feature?

Benefit of distinct weapon: there is a penalty to do an unarmed parry against it.

Benefit of add-on to your extremity: can't be disarmed.

10-12-2019, 02:16 PM	#13
Plane Join Date: Aug 2018	Re: Do Innate Attacks with Melee Attack scale with increased Reach? B62: Innate Attacks are treated as ranged attacks unless given the Melee Attack limitation; then they’re considered melee weapons. The shift of the root noun from "attack" to "weapon" seems notable here. P103 uses it too: Melee Attack turns an attack advantage into a powered melee weapon Obviously though there should be a difference between being able to smack/grab someone's Thrusting Attack (Melee) spear and smack/grab someone's Burning Attack (Melee) flaming sword... An easy dividing line there is anything which can buy ST-based (P103: Crushing, Cutting, or Impaling) should probably be like a physical weapon, while the other kinds (Burning, Corrosion, Fatigue or Piercing) wouldn't be targetable unless someone had "Affects Insubstantial" attacks? Another thing it might be tied to is the "Cannot Parry" limitation... if people can't actually grab your energy sword because it lacks physical substance, then your sword probably shouldn't be able to deflect physical substances either. I wonder if you could even stack Melee Attack (Destructive Parry) +10% with Cannot Parry -5% ... ie you can make parry rolls only for the purpose of getting a free attack against whatever is attacking you, but success only results in damaging the attacking implement, not actually deflecting the attack? This also might fall into 0-point feature territory where what you can parry and what can grapple/disarm your weapon are tied together, but vary based on element. Like for example if you have some kind of Burning Attack (Melee Attack) which can parry other flaming swords but not metal swords, then it could make sense to say that other flaming swords can use Beat or Disarm against your flaming sword, but metal ones could not. But at the same time, you wouldn't then be able to use Beats/Disarms against metal swords either. If it was a one-direction benefit of some kind (the flaming sword can disarm/beat/parry metal swords, but the metal sword cannot disarm/beat parry the flaming sword) then that's probably worth some points, probably tied somewhat to the "No Active Defense" enhancement except only for parries/blocks, like the reverse of when you buy Parryable/Blockable for ranged attacks.

10-12-2019, 02:37 PM	#15
Plane Join Date: Aug 2018	Re: Do Innate Attacks with Melee Attack scale with increased Reach? Maybe whether your Burning Attack causes "fiery fingernails" or a "burning butterknife" (both c-range melee interpretations) could be some kind of 0-point feature? Benefit of distinct weapon: there is a penalty to do an unarmed parry against it. Benefit of add-on to your extremity: can't be disarmed.