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Old 12-01-2012, 02:12 PM   #11
Polydamas
 
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Default Re: Do the Archery rules cover this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jürgen Hubert View Post
Indeed. I stumbled across this video on RPGNet, where the original poster claimed that no RPG system covered this technique. To my chagrin, I discovered he was right about GURPS.

I am also interested in the alleged historical uses of this technique.
Have a look at G.T. Dennis' translation of the Strategikon attributed to Emperor Maurice, anything by David Niccole, or the book Arab Archery and A 14th-Century Archery Treatise in Mamluk-Kipchak: Kitab fi ‘Ilm an-Nushshab.

Because it is just a video meant to attract attention, I am not treating it as harshly as I would someone who made claims in writing and insisted that they were scientific or historical fact. I am actually impressed that you can do this in GURPS!

I think that our source for rapid shooting is a test for Mamelukes which required them to shoot three arrows at 70 m range so that the third was in the air before the first hit the target. Given range and velocity one can estimate time. But I doubt that they let Mamelukes cheat with light bows and very short draws.
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Old 12-01-2012, 03:25 PM   #12
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Default Re: Do the Archery rules cover this?

It is certain to impress the ladies. GURPS would cover all that with a Combat Art skill and be done. There is little that would be useful in a fight. The bow was underpowered, he never used a full draw, and the arrows were too light - his shots would barely deliver a single point of damage with the GURPS system. Those arrows might annoy someone who was naked and standing right in front of the shooter, but they'd bounce off a jacket or denim jeans (DR 0 clothing).

Look at the mail shot again. He seems to have chosen links that were very large and an arrowhead that was very small. He would have kept shooting until a fluke arrow found one of the gaps in the mesh and didn't bounce off a link. We only saw that one shot, not all the others. In any case, extant mail doesn't have gaps large enough for any kind of war arrow to pass through without touching a link. The arrow would have to physically break at least one link to gain useful penetration.

I'd love to see close-up slow-motion footage of how he grabs the arrow and nocks so quickly. It is pretty cool to watch.
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Old 12-02-2012, 03:35 PM   #13
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Default Re: Do the Archery rules cover this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jürgen Hubert View Post
Indeed. I stumbled across this video on RPGNet, where the original poster claimed that no RPG system covered this technique. To my chagrin, I discovered he was right about GURPS.
GURPS doesn't have any specific handling of the technique per se, but it seems like it could be handled as a simply a particular way of doing Fast-Draw (Arrow) with Quick-Shooting Bows, maybe with Extra Attack (One-Skill Only, Bow; Requires DX roll) and plenty of Bow skill (viewing as a combat-useful approach.)

More realistically, probably, do the same thing but replace the skill with Bow Art or Bow Sport.
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Old 12-02-2012, 05:26 PM   #14
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Default Re: Do the Archery rules cover this?

Nevertheless, I'd rather not be the target of such shots.
They seems scary as much as kicks or baton swings, at least. So, they do seem real attacks to me!
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Old 12-02-2012, 07:30 PM   #15
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Default Re: Do the Archery rules cover this?

They would hurt. So does getting slapped in the face or a splinter in your hand from a piece of wood. However, they would not deliver a point of damage in GURPS.
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Old 12-03-2012, 04:21 PM   #16
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Default Bow - 3 shots in less than 2 turns - In real life.

Here is a video showing a modern day archer from Denmark shooting 3 shots and hitting in less than 2 seconds. He has been studying old archery books and "re-discovering" lost techniques for archers.

1. Does this some how wreck the current Gurps Bow skill(s)?
2. How do replicate this with current set of rules from all book available?
3. Does his skill level acquire WM Bow? If so why? If not why?
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Old 12-03-2012, 04:26 PM   #17
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Default Re: Bow - 3 shots in less than 2 turns - In real life.

It's a Technique based on Rapid Strike, with a greatly reduced Dmg and Range in exchange for allowing double the RoF achievable with Fast-Draw and Quick-Shooting Bows.

It's not Weapon Master, because the arrows are not penetrating anywhere near twice as well, which is what would result from giving a +2 bonus to damage to a realistic bow.
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Old 12-03-2012, 04:27 PM   #18
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Default Re: Bow - 3 shots in less than 2 turns - In real life.

That's quite possible with the quick-shooting bows rules in Martial Arts. Does not require weapon master, does not require anything fancy. Accuracy at range is crap :)

EDIT: I'd say the technique is rapid shooting + the dual shooting technique + damage/range penalty to offset skill penalty, plus training in the technique and taking an All Out Attack. This is not a battlefield technique, this is a shooting-range technique.
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Old 12-03-2012, 04:29 PM   #19
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Default Re: Bow - 3 shots in less than 2 turns - In real life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannes665 View Post
Here is a video showing a modern day archer from Denmark shooting 3 shots and hitting in less than 2 seconds. He has been studying old archery books and "re-discovering" lost techniques for archers.

1. Does this some how wreck the current Gurps Bow skill(s)?
2. How do replicate this with current set of rules from all book available?
I don't think we have rules that permit sequentially firing 2 or more arrows in a single maneuver. Obviously we can explain anything if we allow ATR...

Hmm. How would Extra Attack (Multiattack) interact with rules for reloading as a free action?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannes665 View Post
3. Does his skill level acquire WM Bow? If so why? If not why?
I don't think WM Bow unlocks anything that you can't get just by raising skills or techniques.

What it probably does require (assuming we can't create new rules) is Heroic Archer.
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Old 12-03-2012, 04:40 PM   #20
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Default Re: Bow - 3 shots in less than 2 turns - In real life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
That's quite possible with the quick-shooting bows rules in Martial Arts. Does not require weapon master, does not require anything fancy. Accuracy at range is crap :)
I agree that accuracy at range is poor, but that's not the point. The technique is designed to put a lot of arrows on target in a short amount of time at relatively short ranges.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
EDIT: I'd say the technique is rapid shooting + the dual shooting technique + damage/range penalty to offset skill penalty, plus training in the technique and taking an All Out Attack. This is not a battlefield technique, this is a shooting-range technique.
It might be a bad idea on the battlefield (where backpedaling and trying to draw a melee weapon would probably be a better option), but it looks pretty darned useful for hunting. In terms of game mechanics, though, you're spot on.

Arguably, though, based on his stance and release point, the archer is using
"practical" or "primitive" archery techniques used by bow hunters since prehistoric dimes. In game terms, Bow skill.

The very stiff, controlled stances used by Olympic archers to get impressive accuracy at long ranges are a good example of Bow Sport + Aiming + AoA.

Not surprisingly, target archers beat the snot out of primitive archers at target archery, while primitive archers bag more game because they're used to shooting moving targets.
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