"Realms" of competency and "Roles" within them, discussion

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

I'm having a hard time understanding the geography there. The Arabian Gulf (also called the Persian Gulf) is in the Red Sea and lets out into the Indian Ocean. During Phoenecian times there was no Suez canal, so the only way to get to Libya by sailing would be to go all the way around Africa and pass the Pillars of Hercules. Only then would you come to Libya and by then you'd be practically already home.

Note that in that time, Libya basically meant all of Africa outside the Nile Valley.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Realms and roles vary greatly by campaign. You can strain analogies to the breaking point to make, say, netrunners resemble shamans (because they both deal with entities in realms most people don't perceive properly), and to pretend that a high-tech medic is more like a magical healer than a science geek . . . but eventually, the analogies will break.

Absolutely. For many games, a lot of time can be saved by not even trying to use those analogies, but letting character roles emerge from character design. My Infinite Cabal party had:

a) Mad Wizard (Megalomania, healing, detection),
b) Mad Wizard (Scientific investigation of magic),
c) Mad Wizard (Astral plane, philosophy),
d) Fighter-Diplomat,
e) Token sane person (in his own mind) and psionic.

The Irresponsible and Right party has:

a) Commanding officer, versatile ritual magician, man with good contacts in the Imperial General Staff.
b) Would-be commanding officer, supernaturally good face-man, pilot, man with good contacts in the Royal Family.
c) Generalist commando, less versatile ritual magician.
d) Intrusion/scouting specialist, secondary face-man, planner, sniper.
e) Plant magician, sniper.
f) Elementalist magician, sniper.

There's one player who has a character in each party. Can you guess which pair is played by the same person?

[oneofmanynameless]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Realms and roles vary greatly by campaign. You can strain analogies to the breaking point to make, say, netrunners resemble shamans (because they both deal with entities in realms most people don't perceive properly), and to pretend that a high-tech medic is more like a magical healer than a science geek . . . but eventually, the analogies will break. Even in the same genre, at the same TL, players may want to focus in some areas more than others, and might choose to explore a single, narrow realm of adventure in which roles that are only marginally different contrast sharply (e.g., infantry soldiers who have substantially the same training, but slightly different loadouts and the skills to use that gear).

I'd definitely point people to GURPS Template Toolkit 1: Characters – not because I wrote it, but because it explores these things in great depth. Some key niches there can be found across many GURPS supplements, notably in the Action and Dungeon Fantasy series; you usually won't get very far without people who are good at combat, exploration/scouting, medicine/healing, and "dishonesty" such as deceit, sneaking, and stealing. Then again, there are some niches that don't show up everywhere. Fantasy tends to need people adept at dealing with animals, plants, and the outdoors, as well as the supernatural in its own right; action doesn't. Action tends to need experts in communications, detective work, vehicles, and science and technology in their own right; fantasy doesn't. You can find exceptions (for instance, gnome "technologists" in fantasy, and outdoorsy cowboys in action), but they prove the rule: They stand out because they're exceptions.

Other good places to look for advice are GURPS Action 4: Specialists (which devotes fully half its page count to an in-depth analysis of modern-day "realms" and "roles"), GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Career Guide (which offers an exhaustive list of all the things fantasy heroes are likely to do), and GURPS Power-Ups 7: Wildcard Skills (whose numerous examples double as a long list of niches). To some extent, the Reassigning Skills discussion in GURPS Power-Ups 9: Alternate Attributes is also germane. And of course there's the free GURPS Skill Categories. I'd pore over all of those resources if I were serious about this subject.

The takeaway message from all of those supplements: Realms and niches tend to be defined by collections of skills above all else, so sorting skills sorts character niches. After you've done that, you can assign groups of dramatically or functionally related skills to templates, wildcard skills, or even new attributes for roles that are going to matter a lot in the campaign. But there are many, many different ways to do this, so in all cases, the "how to" in those supplements is more important than the examples.

I am definitely going to have to check out all of those lovely things!

[Donny Brook]

Originally Posted by Balor Patch

"The Phoenicians sailed from the Arabian gulf into the southern ocean, and every autumn put in at some convenient spot on the Libyan coast, sowed a patch of ground, and waited for next year's harvest. Then, having got in their grain, they put to sea again, and after two full years rounded the Pillars of Heracles in the course of the third, and returned to Egypt."

Hello, Balor Patch. Where is that quote from?

[ravenfish]

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

Hello, Balor Patch. Where is that quote from?

That sounds like it's from the story of the Phoenician circumnavigation of Africa recounted by Herodotus in his Histories.

EDIT: Book 4, section 43, to be specific.

[Donny Brook]

Awesomen thanks!

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by ravenfish

That sounds like it's from the story of the Phoenician circumnavigation of Africa recounted by Herodotus in his Histories.

EDIT: Book 4, section 43, to be specific.

Herodotus doubted that it actually happened, citing such fanciful elements as the sun being to the north when they rounded the tip of Africa.

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

I'm having a hard time understanding the geography there. The Arabian Gulf (also called the Persian Gulf) is in the Red Sea and lets out into the Indian Ocean. During Phoenecian times there was no Suez canal, so the only way to get to Libya by sailing would be to go all the way around Africa and pass the Pillars of Hercules. Only then would you come to Libya and by then you'd be practically already home.

The problem is that the names have changed. The quote is from Herodotus, who defined "Libya" to include all of Africa west of the Nile. And Saudia Arabia only started insisting that the Persian Gulf be called the "Arabian Gulf" after 1960. Before that "Arabian Gulf" was a synonym for the Red Sea, and in Latin classics Sinus Arabicus refers to the Red Sea. If we were doing a fresh translation of Herodotus Histories the account of Necho II's Phoenician expedition might be

"The Phoenicians sailed from the Red Sea into the Indian Ocean, and every autumn put in at some convenient spot on the African coast, sowed a patch of ground, and waited for next year's harvest. Then, having got in their grain, they put to sea again, and after two full years passed through the Strait of Gibraltar in the course of the third, and returned to Egypt."

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by Agemegos

The problem is that the names have changed. The quote is from Herodotus, who defined "Libya" to include all of Africa west of the Nile. And Saudia Arabia only started insisting that the Persian Gulf be called the "Arabian Gulf" in after 1960. Before that "Arabian Gulf" was a synonym for the Red Sea, and in Latin classics Sinus Arabicus refers to the Red Sea. If we were doing a fresh translation of Herodotus Histories the account of Necho II's Phoenician expedition might be

"The Phoenicians sailed from the Red Sea into the Indian Ocean, and every autumn put in at some convenient spot on the African coast, sowed a patch of ground, and waited for next year's harvest. Then, having got in their grain, they put to sea again, and after two full years passed through the Strait of Gibraltar in the course of the third, and returned to Egypt."

OK, so they basically stopped for long periods two or three times over the course of that adventure, in different locations around the coast, before getting back to Egypt, somewhere around 600 BCE.

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by RyanW

Note that in that time, Libya basically meant all of Africa outside the Nile Valley.

Yes, "Libya" is the Greek name for the continent of Africa / Africa west of the Nile Valley. And there was a Suez Canal about 80 years after this story is set, the original one was finished under Darius the Great and the current one was made under someone who did not put up stelai in cuneiform and hieroglyphics so I don't remember their name.