My Dream: e-Nomine

[KDLadage]

To: Archangel Beth
and all those that would like to see a new edition of In Nomine produced by Steve Jackson Games

Well, e23 is here. And with it is the potential for a lot of things that Steve Jackson would never attempt as a print-product getting some treatment in publication, at least, as an electronic download.

So, I will post here my dream project for In Nomine in this venue: I call it e-Nomine.

What I would like is:

• The entire rule-set to be re-thought. Cleaned up. Organized better. Rewritten. And in the end, published on e23 as the second edition of In Nomine.
• I would like to see the superiors books broken up to one superior = one download. I was a good 64-page (or so) treatment of each superior in the In Nomine Universe.
• I would like to see all of the other (print) published books updated to the second edition rules.
• I would like to see adventures (we have some already, yay!), sure. But I would more like to see write-ups of NPCs to be dropped into games. Lots of demons of each band, lots of Angels of each choir. How they vary from superior to superior -- worded, non-worded, officers of their respective chains of command, and grunt 'foot soldiers' in the fight.

But all of this hinges on that first one -- a new set of IN rules.

Rules that:

• Handle 'normals' better.
• Less clunky mechanics, overall.
• Handle more variation in celestial power and abilities.
• Maintain the 'cinematic' feel of the current rules.
• Include options for good Live Action Role Playing

So I ask you: how likely is this? And how soon could it begin?

I know that there are some barriers to this. Not the least of which is Steve Jackson's current inventory of the print product... so I am not expectant, just hopeful.

[Archangel Beth]

Unless the printed stuff is selling so badly that it becomes more profitable to pulp them and sell the scraps -- which is not my decision -- I don't think we're going to cannibalize the print materials. Future materials, of course, or "reprints"...

(Note: if everyone tries to NOT buy print versions, this will probably convince SJ that the line's not even worth e23ing...)

Once I'm told that the core rules are down to a nice minimum and expected to be sold out soon, I'll be happy to work on a second edition. Believe me. I don't know if SJ will want to make it a print version or an e23 version; that's not up to me. I have at least two or three ideas for just plain re-structuring the thing. (GURPS IN is very close to one of those ways.)

(Superiors on e23 are already slated to be "self-contained" and not bundled with others. Probably a good thing -- S5 was going to be awfully crowded, with 3 majors and two minors.)

I'm not sure that the rules will ever handle mundane humans gracefully, without over-powering the celestials or underpowering them. I do have some notions that might help humans be handled better. (Some of them may see the light of e23, one of these days, even.) But if you want mundanes to have more of a chance, GURPS In Nomine does that a lot better, since it has more scope of character stats.

There are a lot of NPCs already in the Liber Servitorum. Mind, character "books" are relatively easy to get, since one mostly needs to suck the ideas out of other people's brains (ask for submissions) and pick the best, then clean them up. There's still a fair number of characters from the LS "contest." You Are Here also has NPCs (without stats) for nearly every place featured, and of course the Superior expansions offer thumbnails, as you likely know.

I also occasionally have thoughts about e23 books of... Well, I should ask Scott about that, sometime when he's surfaced from work to breathe.

I'm not sure if the mechanics will be less clunky -- the core d666 would have to be scrapped entirely, since it's the 2-12 range which makes things a bit granular. Either that, or just go to GURPS (3d6), and handle it the GIN way. I'll undoubtedly want to address some areas of clunk, but others are more to be considered "quaint and quirky." (And, er, what do you mean by more variations of power, for celestials?)

Live Action rules depend on someone handing me a draft that meets SJ's very strict guidelines and sensibilities. There have been at least three proposed and rejected for one reason or another. There's another potential submission which may or may not pan out, depending on what the author does with it.

I don't think Live Action rules would integrate with the text very well, and not everyone will want to pay for them. I strongly suspect that any IN LARP rules would be a separate file.

Anyway, while I may not be going to adopt every single suggestion that any one person (or several people) make -- I do try to read and make mental notes, when people post. So if other people chime in, I'll smile, and make those notes. And possibly the odd list as well. O;>

[Jennifer]

Originally Posted by Archangel Beth

There are a lot of NPCs already in the Liber Servitorum. Mind, character "books" are relatively easy to get, since one mostly needs to suck the ideas out of other people's brains (ask for submissions) and pick the best, then clean them up. There's still a fair number of characters from the LS "contest." You Are Here also has NPCs (without stats) for nearly every place featured, and of course the Superior expansions offer thumbnails, as you likely know.

How about doing another In Nomine pin-up calendar - but this time with actual gaming content? Each month is a previously unpublished character, with Liber Serv. style write-up /and/ nummy nummy pin-up art.

Originally Posted by Archangel Beth

Live Action rules depend on someone handing me a draft that meets SJ's very strict guidelines and sensibilities. There have been at least three proposed and rejected for one reason or another. There's another potential submission which may or may not pan out, depending on what the author does with it.

Those guidelines are...?

[Archangel Beth]

If we get someone doing the nummy, nummy art for an affordable price... That's something I can pitch to Scott sometime, after he's come up for air.

The guidelines -- first, all the general ones at www.sjgames.com/general/guidelines/authors. Then, there needs to be some form of dice-resolution. (I don't think it needs to be the only means, but it needs to be the major means.) And finally, it needs to capture the feel of the original, or better.

And probably some others that I don't recall at this hour of the morning with too-little sleep.

[brass]

Perhaps considerations for the possible next edition (if any) would be treating Soldiers as a character that is thought of being one of the basic options other than just Angel/Demon. I know that this approach with the World of Darkness stuff has led to a a much more atmospheric and interesting gaming experience than the Vampire and werwolf stuff thats coming out.

[Jennifer]

Originally Posted by Archangel Beth

Then, there needs to be some form of dice-resolution. (I don't think it needs to be the only means, but it needs to be the major means.)

Is SJ particularly attached to dice as the mechanism for randomized resolution? What about drawing a random card from an envelope, or somesuch? I'm curious about the reasoning behind this one.

[Archangel Beth]

Originally Posted by Jennifer

Is SJ particularly attached to dice as the mechanism for randomized resolution?

Yes, as far as I know.

You'd have to ask him why, someday.

[Archangel Beth]

Originally Posted by brass

Perhaps considerations for the possible next edition (if any) would be treating Soldiers as a character that is thought of being one of the basic options other than just Angel/Demon.

I don't think the core rules could handle that without getting really bloated, and the CPG is really the human expansion part. (Just as the EPG is the expansion that deals with ethereals in all the gory detail they both deserve and need.)

But I do have certain notions about Soldiers in other contexts.

[KDLadage]

Originally Posted by Archangel Beth

Unless the printed stuff is selling so badly that it becomes more profitable to pulp them and sell the scraps -- which is not my decision -- I don't think we're going to cannibalize the print materials. Future materials, of course, or "reprints"...

Understood.

Originally Posted by Archangel Beth

(Note: if everyone tries to NOT buy print versions, this will probably convince SJ that the line's not even worth e23ing...)

That would be a decidedly bad thing. I have some in my shopping cart, and I am saving up for a good sized purchase. I am just trying to convince me local gaming group to give it a shot.

Originally Posted by Archangel Beth

Once I'm told that the core rules are down to a nice minimum and expected to be sold out soon, I'll be happy to work on a second edition. Believe me. I don't know if SJ will want to make it a print version or an e23 version; that's not up to me. I have at least two or three ideas for just plain re-structuring the thing. (GURPS IN is very close to one of those ways.)

What would it take for me to convince you to let me be involved at the ground floor on that one? :)

Originally Posted by Archangel Beth

(Superiors on e23 are already slated to be "self-contained" and not bundled with others. Probably a good thing -- S5 was going to be awfully crowded, with 3 majors and two minors.)

Excellent!

Originally Posted by Archangel Beth

I'm not sure that the rules will ever handle mundane humans gracefully, without over-powering the celestials or underpowering them. I do have some notions that might help humans be handled better. (Some of them may see the light of e23, one of these days, even.) But if you want mundanes to have more of a chance, GURPS In Nomine does that a lot better, since it has more scope of character stats.

Well, I think that the first step in ensuring that normalls can be handled well is to split the character attribute stats from the Forces. I know this might sound like a terrible thing to some people, but I think it makes more sense and will allow for a greater variety in characters, while allowing the Forces -- even 1 of them -- to truly make Angelic and Deminic beings distinct from humanity.

Originally Posted by Archangel Beth

There are a lot of NPCs already in the Liber Servitorum. Mind, character "books" are relatively easy to get, since one mostly needs to suck the ideas out of other people's brains (ask for submissions) and pick the best, then clean them up. There's still a fair number of characters from the LS "contest." You Are Here also has NPCs (without stats) for nearly every place featured, and of course the Superior expansions offer thumbnails, as you likely know.

Yep -- I just think that a good, solid, well defined set of NPSc helps a new GM get a handle on how the game is supposed to run, as well as give "templates" for players to follow in getting their characters created. In my opinion. YMMV. yada yada yada.

Originally Posted by Archangel Beth

I also occasionally have thoughts about e23 books of... Well, I should ask Scott about that, sometime when he's surfaced from work to breathe.

Let him rest. He has certainly earned it.

Originally Posted by Archangel Beth

I'm not sure if the mechanics will be less clunky -- the core d666 would have to be scrapped entirely, since it's the 2-12 range which makes things a bit granular. Either that, or just go to GURPS (3d6), and handle it the GIN way. I'll undoubtedly want to address some areas of clunk, but others are more to be considered "quaint and quirky."

I think that the idea of the 2d6+CD can still work. Using a 3d6 system could also work (either using GIN as a model, or some other method). Heck, we could even use a d6 dice pool. It could all be fine -- as long as it works smoothly. And, in my opinion, it can be granular without being clunky.

Originally Posted by Archangel Beth

(And, er, what do you mean by more variations of power, for celestials?)

All celestials get X forces. All soldiers get Y forces. Mix it up a bit.

Originally Posted by Archangel Beth

Live Action rules depend on someone handing me a draft that meets SJ's very strict guidelines and sensibilities. There have been at least three proposed and rejected for one reason or another. There's another potential submission which may or may not pan out, depending on what the author does with it.

It is the "it must6 use a dice mechanic" thing that bugs me. Using dice in an open courtyard at a College Campus at 10pm while participating in a Live Action RPG seems... well... wrong.

Originally Posted by Archangel Beth

I don't think Live Action rules would integrate with the text very well, and not everyone will want to pay for them. I strongly suspect that any IN LARP rules would be a separate file.

That is fine... as long as the main table-top file takes the rules for LARPing into account as they are being written.

Originally Posted by Archangel Beth

Anyway, while I may not be going to adopt every single suggestion that any one person (or several people) make -- I do try to read and make mental notes, when people post. So if other people chime in, I'll smile, and make those notes. And possibly the odd list as well. O;>

Will do.

[William]

Originally Posted by Archangel Beth

I don't think the core rules could handle that without getting really bloated, and the CPG is really the human expansion part. (Just as the EPG is the expansion that deals with ethereals in all the gory detail they both deserve and need.)

But I do have certain notions about Soldiers in other contexts.

The CPG has some good ideas for making Soldiers more survivable. Two of the simpler examples include "big guns for the stand-up fights" and "if you need to hide, remember there are more of you around than there are of them."

(At least it makes humans more of a force to be reckoned with as far as I can tell. I use GURPS In Nomine, in which two random low-statted homeless humans with knives could probably make your typical Malakite worry for his Vessel. ;^) )