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Old 11-30-2020, 03:12 PM   #1
nick_coffin
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Question about minimum damage

B378 says that a negative add on a damage roll, such as 1d-3, cannot reduce the damage to less than 0 (if 'cr') or 1 (any other damage type).

Does this apply before or after other bonuses? For example, my thief entertainer has attack Knife, 1d-3 cut. He does Mighty Blow for +2 damage. Is his damage calculation:

1d-3 (minimum of 1) +2, for a range of 3-5?

Or

1d-3+2, or 1d-1 (minimum of 1), for a range of 1-5?
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Old 11-30-2020, 03:25 PM   #2
MrFix
 
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Default Re: Question about minimum damage

That note applies to wounding, rather than damage. For example, 1d-3 knife deals 1-3 damage, it never deals 0, -1 or -3. With mighty blows, the knife's damage die is 1d-1, so his damage spread is 1-5.
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Last edited by MrFix; 11-30-2020 at 03:35 PM.
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Old 11-30-2020, 03:30 PM   #3
Stormcrow
 
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Default Re: Question about minimum damage

Add together all modifiers before looking to see whether it's less or more than 0... otherwise the order you added those modifiers could determine the outcome.
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Old 11-30-2020, 03:31 PM   #4
nick_coffin
 
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Default Re: Question about minimum damage

How about for multiplied damage, e.g:

3d-1x4
+2 for Mighty Blow

Is the calculation:

((3d - 1) x 4) + 2?

Or:

(3d - 1 + 2) x 4?
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Old 11-30-2020, 03:38 PM   #5
MrFix
 
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Default Re: Question about minimum damage

The note is there exclusively so a weapon like knife could never deal 0 damage, because it's unrealistic. Whenever the final wound is below 0, it is assumed 1. It does not participate in any other calculations, multiplications, additions and subtractions and other transformations.

After all said and done with your damage die, check if it's 0 or less, and replace that with 1 HP worth of wound.

Edit, on topic of your question, the damage is ((3d-1)x4)+2 if the multiplication is part of damage die. If multiplication is an effect such as from hitting hit location, it is (3d+1)x4
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Last edited by MrFix; 11-30-2020 at 03:43 PM.
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Old 12-01-2020, 07:57 AM   #6
Varyon
 
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Default Re: Question about minimum damage

Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_coffin View Post
How about for multiplied damage, e.g:

3d-1x4
+2 for Mighty Blow

Is the calculation:

((3d - 1) x 4) + 2?

Or:

(3d - 1 + 2) x 4?
I'd say for something that is simply stated to multiply damage (I think Power Blow or similar may do this), I'd say you do all addition/subtraction first, then roll and multiply the final result, then apply the "minimum 1" if applicable. If it's something else - note some weapons express their dice using multipliers - then if you have some option that simply adds a set amount of damage, it comes into play later. Of course, note it's often appropriate for such to be treated as each flat +1 to damage being worth +1 per 2d.
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Old 12-01-2020, 11:07 PM   #7
Plane
 
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Default Re: Question about minimum damage

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFix View Post
The note is there exclusively so a weapon like knife could never deal 0 damage, because it's unrealistic.
IRL examples of people gently touching the tip of edge of a knife without drawing blood I guess count as below the threshold of ST 1 or something?

I've totally touched the sharp teeth and sharp claws of a cat w/o suffering an injury too.
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Old 12-01-2020, 11:25 PM   #8
Kale
 
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Default Re: Question about minimum damage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
IRL examples of people gently touching the tip of edge of a knife without drawing blood I guess count as below the threshold of ST 1 or something?

I've totally touched the sharp teeth and sharp claws of a cat w/o suffering an injury too.
I'd suggest that the minimum 1 point of damage for cut/imp only applies when there is an actual intent to wound. GM's call and a dose of common sense on that ruling, although falling on a loose pile of daggers would probably cause some injury.
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Old 12-02-2020, 11:17 AM   #9
Taneli
 
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Default Re: Question about minimum damage

The note is about the final damage that is compared against damage resistance.

So in your example, it's the latter. 1d-3+2 for a final of 1d-1, and the outcome group is: {1, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5}, due to it being cutting damage. Similar crushing attack has an outcome group of {0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5}.
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Old 12-02-2020, 11:21 AM   #10
Taneli
 
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Default Re: Question about minimum damage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kale View Post
I'd suggest that the minimum 1 point of damage for cut/imp only applies when there is an actual intent to wound. GM's call and a dose of common sense on that ruling, although falling on a loose pile of daggers would probably cause some injury.
Well yes, it has to be an attack. Falling on a loose pile of daggers, as a GM I would first somehow* determine if there were any pointy or cutty outliers, or if it were just a normal fall.

* probably with some sort of luck roll, assuming it had not been already determined that there were pointy or cutty outliers in the pile previously.
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