Making a Huge Piercing Rifled Musket

Minuteman37 · 12-03-2016, 08:50 PM

Do to the abundance of creators with injury tolerance unliving in my AtE game the locals who still get by with powder and shot muskets use .75 caliber balls in what's effectively a brown bess musket. I'd also like to introduce a rifled variant of this gun for those seeking additional accuracy, but find the pi++ rifled musket in high-tech to deal insufficient damage over the pi+ version to warrant adoption, but I also want to keep these long arms pi++ for gamist reasons and to make them distinct from the more advanced pi+ lever-actions, bolt-actions and single shot breech loading rifles made by more advanced groups.

TL;DR, Could someone please stat up a huge piercing version of the brown Bess Musket for me?

acrosome · 12-04-2016, 06:50 AM

Take the Brown Bess, add +1 to Acc, and reduce range by 10%. Isn't that RAW for rifling a smoothbore? (IDHMBWM)

mlangsdorf · 12-04-2016, 07:09 AM

Brown Bess Rifled-Musket
This is an improved Short Land Pattern Musket with a rifled barrel, firing minie balls for improved accuracy and a faster reloading time. It is a common design among small, poor communities that can't manage to build more mechanically complicated guns but still need a large, powerful round to deal with mechanical and mutants threats.

Richer and slightly more advanced communities will build them as caplocks for a dramatic increase in firing rate and reliability.

Code:

TL  Weapon                                     Damage     Acc   Range    Weight   RoF  Shots  ST  Bulk  Rcl   Cost  LC  Notes
5    Rifled Brown Bess, .75 Flintlock         4d+2 pi++    3  120/1200  10/0.09    1   1(40)  11   -6    4    $120   3  [1, 2]

Notes
1: Unreliable. Malfunctions on a 16+.
2: Caplock versions have Shots 1(15) and Cost $300. Remove note 1.

RyanW · 12-04-2016, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

Richer and slightly more advanced communities will build them as caplocks for a dramatic increase in firing rate and reliability.

Do caplocks improve RoF significantly? They and minie balls appeared at about the same time, but there's no real reason you can't use a minie ball in a flintlock, or drive a round ball into a percussion lock rifle, is there?

johndallman · 12-04-2016, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanW

Do caplocks improve RoF significantly? They and minie balls appeared at about the same time, but there's no real reason you can't use a minie ball in a flintlock, or drive a round ball into a percussion lock rifle, is there?

High-Tech's descriptions of loading on p86 say that flintlock and caplock take the same time. A minie ball allows a rifle to be loaded in the same time as a smoothbore musket. The table on p120 allows an Enfield P/1853 rifled musket to be loaded in 15 seconds, but I can't currently see why it's so quick.

Something that can give the idea caplocks are fast is the trick for caplock revolvers of loading and capping complete spare cylinders, which is much faster than reloading the cylinder in the gun.

mlangsdorf · 12-04-2016, 12:12 PM

The caplock Enfield P/1853 has shots 1(15), versus the shots 1(40) of the flintlock Brown Bess. So that's 8 shots every 2 minutes from the Enfield versus 3 shots every 2 minutes from the Brown Bess. So yeah, I think that's a significant speedup.

There's no reason why you can't use minie balls in a flintlock, and that's how I wrote up the gun. And you could use round balls in a caplock gun, but there's no reason not to get the accuracy of a rifled barrel unless you're firing shot in which case you're looking at a caplock shotgun like the Colt Model 1855.

My point was merely that settlements that can afford the extra expense of a caplock action are probably going to prefer it over a flintlock action. It's more reliable, slightly more accurate (though below the limit of resolution in GURPS), and faster to reload. For settlements that are limited by the number of available shooters but don't have the mechanical skills to make reliable breechloaders, caplocks are a better solution than flintlocks.

fredtheobviouspseudonym · 12-04-2016, 01:38 PM

IIRC the standard in the British Army c. 1812 for ROF from a Brown Bess was about 2-3 shots a minute, with cartridge. Admittedly these were some of the best-trained musketeers on the planet but I'd think that 1 in 40 is a bit too long.

Also, remember that in the American Civil War & IIRC earlier there were "cappers", mechanical widgets that held a number of percussion caps securely and made it far easier to "cap" the musket. This might be included in the faster reload time of the muzzle-loading percussion musket.

Second. There were in the American Civil War guys who had to use former muskets rifled for Minie balls. There was one fellow . . . who called these types of weapons "pumpkin slingers" (c. 69 to .71 caliber) and noted, "I'm not sure what effect they had on the Rebs but they sure did some damage at my end!"

Penalties for recoil should be high.

Ulzgoroth · 12-04-2016, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredtheobviouspseudonym

IIRC the standard in the British Army c. 1812 for ROF from a Brown Bess was about 2-3 shots a minute, with cartridge. Admittedly these were some of the best-trained musketeers on the planet but I'd think that 1 in 40 is a bit too long.

That base time can be dramatically improved with Quick Draw skill and the Quick Reload perk.

Those may be unusual for modern combatants, but could easily be much less so for highly-drilled muzzle-loader troops for whom reloading quickly is actually a core skill.

Polydamas · 12-04-2016, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johndallman

High-Tech's descriptions of loading on p86 say that flintlock and caplock take the same time. A minie ball allows a rifle to be loaded in the same time as a smoothbore musket. The table on p120 allows an Enfield P/1853 rifled musket to be loaded in 15 seconds, but I can't currently see why it's so quick.

Something that can give the idea caplocks are fast is the trick for caplock revolvers of loading and capping complete spare cylinders, which is much faster than reloading the cylinder in the gun.

As High Tech p. 86 explains the listed times for weapons with Multi-Part ammo halve with paper cartridges. So that 40 seconds is 20 seconds in normal conditions, where you pull a paper cartridge out of your pouch, bite the bullet free, take a pinch of powder for the pan and pour the rest down the barrel, ... I suspect that the rifle-musket avoids this because it is always caplock.

So its really 20 seconds for the musket, and 15 for the rifled musket.

Varyon · 12-06-2016, 11:12 AM

The difference between reloading flintlock and caplock weapons comes down to a single step - for a flintlock weapon, you have to prime the pan (add a bit of powder to it), while for a caplock weapon you instead have to replace the percussion cap. Without paper cartridges, the caplock would probably see a bit of a speed advantage, as replacing the percussion cap probably takes less than the ~10 seconds needed to prime the pan (self-priming pans cut reload time by 10 seconds). However, HT considers the use of paper cartridges to make the time for priming the pan essentially negligible, as they get no further advantage from using a self-priming pan. It seems to me that priming the pan from a paper cartridge and replacing a percussion cap would likely take about the same amount of time (perhaps 3 ready maneuvers, much like replacing fixed ammunition), so it would make sense for the weapons to have the same loading speed there. Ignoring the slight speed advantage of caplocks without paper cartridges and ignoring the slight speed advantage of self-priming flintlocks with paper cartridges can be chalked up to keeping things simple.

As for the 15 second reload time for the Enfield, that's probably appropriate for highly-trained troops using paper cartridges - that is, the numbers work if you successfully rolled Fast-Draw (Ammo). I have no idea why they apparently set that as the base time.

12-03-2016, 08:50 PM	#1
Minuteman37 Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Kenai, Alaska	Making a Huge Piercing Rifled Musket Do to the abundance of creators with injury tolerance unliving in my AtE game the locals who still get by with powder and shot muskets use .75 caliber balls in what's effectively a brown bess musket. I'd also like to introduce a rifled variant of this gun for those seeking additional accuracy, but find the pi++ rifled musket in high-tech to deal insufficient damage over the pi+ version to warrant adoption, but I also want to keep these long arms pi++ for gamist reasons and to make them distinct from the more advanced pi+ lever-actions, bolt-actions and single shot breech loading rifles made by more advanced groups. TL;DR, Could someone please stat up a huge piercing version of the brown Bess Musket for me?

12-04-2016, 06:50 AM	#2
acrosome Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: The Land of Enchantment	Re: Making a Huge Piercing Rifled Musket Take the Brown Bess, add +1 to Acc, and reduce range by 10%. Isn't that RAW for rifling a smoothbore? (IDHMBWM) __________________ I'd need to get a grant and go shoot a thousand goats to figure it out.

12-04-2016, 07:09 AM	#3
mlangsdorf Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Austin, TX	Re: Making a Huge Piercing Rifled Musket Brown Bess Rifled-Musket This is an improved Short Land Pattern Musket with a rifled barrel, firing minie balls for improved accuracy and a faster reloading time. It is a common design among small, poor communities that can't manage to build more mechanically complicated guns but still need a large, powerful round to deal with mechanical and mutants threats. Richer and slightly more advanced communities will build them as caplocks for a dramatic increase in firing rate and reliability. Code: TL Weapon Damage Acc Range Weight RoF Shots ST Bulk Rcl Cost LC Notes 5 Rifled Brown Bess, .75 Flintlock 4d+2 pi++ 3 120/1200 10/0.09 1 1(40) 11 -6 4 $120 3 [1, 2] Notes 1: Unreliable. Malfunctions on a 16+. 2: Caplock versions have Shots 1(15) and Cost $300. Remove note 1. __________________ Read my GURPS blog: http://noschoolgrognard.blogspot.com

12-04-2016, 12:12 PM	#6
mlangsdorf Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Austin, TX	Re: Making a Huge Piercing Rifled Musket The caplock Enfield P/1853 has shots 1(15), versus the shots 1(40) of the flintlock Brown Bess. So that's 8 shots every 2 minutes from the Enfield versus 3 shots every 2 minutes from the Brown Bess. So yeah, I think that's a significant speedup. There's no reason why you can't use minie balls in a flintlock, and that's how I wrote up the gun. And you could use round balls in a caplock gun, but there's no reason not to get the accuracy of a rifled barrel unless you're firing shot in which case you're looking at a caplock shotgun like the Colt Model 1855. My point was merely that settlements that can afford the extra expense of a caplock action are probably going to prefer it over a flintlock action. It's more reliable, slightly more accurate (though below the limit of resolution in GURPS), and faster to reload. For settlements that are limited by the number of available shooters but don't have the mechanical skills to make reliable breechloaders, caplocks are a better solution than flintlocks. __________________ Read my GURPS blog: http://noschoolgrognard.blogspot.com

12-04-2016, 01:38 PM	#7
fredtheobviouspseudonym Join Date: May 2007	Reloading times -- IIRC the standard in the British Army c. 1812 for ROF from a Brown Bess was about 2-3 shots a minute, with cartridge. Admittedly these were some of the best-trained musketeers on the planet but I'd think that 1 in 40 is a bit too long. Also, remember that in the American Civil War & IIRC earlier there were "cappers", mechanical widgets that held a number of percussion caps securely and made it far easier to "cap" the musket. This might be included in the faster reload time of the muzzle-loading percussion musket. Second. There were in the American Civil War guys who had to use former muskets rifled for Minie balls. There was one fellow . . . who called these types of weapons "pumpkin slingers" (c. 69 to .71 caliber) and noted, "I'm not sure what effect they had on the Rebs but they sure did some damage at my end!" Penalties for recoil should be high.

12-06-2016, 11:12 AM	#10
Varyon Join Date: Jun 2013	Re: Making a Huge Piercing Rifled Musket The difference between reloading flintlock and caplock weapons comes down to a single step - for a flintlock weapon, you have to prime the pan (add a bit of powder to it), while for a caplock weapon you instead have to replace the percussion cap. Without paper cartridges, the caplock would probably see a bit of a speed advantage, as replacing the percussion cap probably takes less than the ~10 seconds needed to prime the pan (self-priming pans cut reload time by 10 seconds). However, HT considers the use of paper cartridges to make the time for priming the pan essentially negligible, as they get no further advantage from using a self-priming pan. It seems to me that priming the pan from a paper cartridge and replacing a percussion cap would likely take about the same amount of time (perhaps 3 ready maneuvers, much like replacing fixed ammunition), so it would make sense for the weapons to have the same loading speed there. Ignoring the slight speed advantage of caplocks without paper cartridges and ignoring the slight speed advantage of self-priming flintlocks with paper cartridges can be chalked up to keeping things simple. As for the 15 second reload time for the Enfield, that's probably appropriate for highly-trained troops using paper cartridges - that is, the numbers work if you successfully rolled Fast-Draw (Ammo). I have no idea why they apparently set that as the base time.