Technique for Acting/Disguise to pass as opposite gender

[acrosome]

So, I'm working on my pseudofantasy again- no magic. I'm going to have an order of what amounts to female ninja. (Much more complex and interesting than that, but the mental image will suffice for this discussion.) Being female they often have to travel unhindered, and so they very often disguise themselves as young men or boys. I want to make a Technique for Acting and Disguise that is simply "to pass for the opposite gender", that they can improve. They are not impersonating a specific person, but just trying to look like a male so that they need not deal with the societal issues of an un-escorted woman.

So, what would the default be for that? I assume that it would be a rather straightforward application of the Disguise skill, and might actually get a bonus, assuming that normal male clothes are available. Or would it be an unmodified roll?

What other modifiers might apply? Special clothing with padding or binding in the "right places" would give a bonus, perhaps with quality modifiers. Androgynous Looks would help, for certain. Would it be reasonable to apply the opposite of the reaction modifiers for Attractive Appearance, under the assumption that they look too memorably feminine when they are that attractive? I recall reading a perk somewhere that was basically "can pass as some other ethnic group"- would a similar perk for them be appropriate, or is that what the Androgynous Looks perk means?

In what different situations would an Acting roll be more appropriate than a Disguise roll, and vice versa?

Any other thoughts?

[Anthony]

It would normally offset the penalty for disguising yourself as someone very different, but the rules don't say what that penalty is in this case, just a general "-1 to -5" for any very different disguise.

[acrosome]

Originally Posted by Anthony

It would normally offset the penalty for disguising yourself as someone very different, but the rules don't say what that penalty is in this case, just a general "-1 to -5" for any very different disguise.

Yes, I had read that modifier. I'm just not sure how substantially different a waifish woman is from a boy... er, well, you know what I mean. Is that -1 or -5? Or what?

[whswhs]

My guess would be 0 if Androgynous, -4 or -5 if Classic Features (masculine or feminine), and maybe -2 as an average. That fairly well covers the range stated for Disguise penalties.

[oneofmanynameless]

I have heard that it is considerably easier for women to disguise themselves as men then vice versa, although I don't know how useful that is to this discussion.

[Anthony]

Also subject to genre effects, it's a very common disguise type in stories that is usually very reliable, so might not have a penalty at all.

[acrosome]

Originally Posted by whswhs

My guess would be 0 if Androgynous, -4 or -5 if Classic Features (masculine or feminine), and maybe -2 as an average. That fairly well covers the range stated for Disguise penalties.

Well, I'm sure as hell not going to argue with Mr Stoddard. That sounds reasonable, and gives me the -2 default as a starting place to design the technique. Then Androgynous Appearance is a +2, Classic Features (Feminine) is -2, etc. And I think that as a sort of specialization it would be reasonable to be able to improve it higher than the default skill, right? Maybe as high as +2?

Thanks.

You wouldn't base something off of Attractive Appearance, though? Only Classic Features?

But another point- that all works well for Disguise. But what about the Acting? That seems like a different problem.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by acrosome

But another point- that all works well for Disguise. But what about the Acting? That seems like a different problem.

For the Acting part, I think you'll have to decide based on how gendered you think day to day behaviour, speech, etc. is in your setting. If the vocabulary used by men and women is quite different, or the way they structure their sentences, impersonating the opposite gender when interacting with people will be much harder than in a place where the only difference is the degree of profanity used (especially as a boy is probably not expected to swear as much as an older man, so pretending to be a boy won't be much of a stretch).

When it comes to disguise a fair bit is also going to depend on how revealing the clothing is, and how thick. If it's medieval to pre-industrial northern Europe in layers and weight, it'll be a heck of a lot easier than on some pre-European contact Pacific Islands.

[acrosome]

Originally Posted by Rupert

When it comes to disguise a fair bit is also going to depend on how revealing the clothing is, and how thick. If it's medieval to pre-industrial northern Europe in layers and weight, it'll be a heck of a lot easier than on some pre-European contact Pacific Islands.

It's a temperate climate where the Harbingers Obscurant are most active, so you can think of the clothing as "medieval" as a first-order approximation. And I'm most concerned with travelling, so heavy clothes to protect from the weather would be de rigueur. (But I am designing an entire world- my intent is to eventually make a world-sized sandbox.)

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by acrosome

You wouldn't base something off of Attractive Appearance, though? Only Classic Features?

Attractive Appearance can cover a lot of different ground. There's no requirement that high levels of non-Androgynous appearance emphasize sexual dimorphism.