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View Poll Results: DFRPG Future, as whished for by Forumites
1) Just make more. 21 16.03%
2) .pdf with POD support 38 29.01%
2a) Seperate line. 9 6.87%
2b) Integrate into the DF line 58 44.27%
2c) Finish whats available, and end further production of new material. 1 0.76%
3) Simply end all further production, and place resources in other projects. 4 3.05%
Voters: 131. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-15-2018, 11:36 AM   #31
kmunoz
 
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Default Re: The Future of the Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game?

My interest in DFRPG was about two specific things:

1) I wanted a product that got out of its own way and hid all of the math that it possibly could. DFRPG was about 80% successful on this score. There is still a bit of math in character creation that could have been streamlined out, but it would have required a lot more pages and so Iím content with the compromise solution.
2) I wanted a revision of the standard magic system that fixed the problems with the spell list. DFRPG was about 80% successful on this score, too. The ratís nest prerequisite lists for wizards and bards is still there, and still unconscionable, but at least the spells have better balance.

Honestly nothing else mattered to me. DF was doing most of the heavy lifting already - it was just saddled with too much being visible from under the hood and with a very problematic collection of spells.

Iím still not the right audience for DF or DFRPG. DFRPG toned down the snark quite a bit, but it still couldnít quite play things straight enough to my taste.

Iím sad that DFRPG is never going to have the other character templates, or any of the other juicy parts of DF that just needed to have the hood closed to make them palatable to newbies. But Iím not surprised at its lack of success.

All of this to say that I donít see a future for DFRPG that fits its intended goals. You canít fold it back into DF without removing the things that make it not-DF. SJG is never going to become an adventure-making factory. And weíve been waiting for a bestiary for over a decade. The Monsters book is a great start and Iíll use it for non-DFRPG games, but Iím also painfully aware that itís as much an end as it is a start.
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Old 02-15-2018, 12:48 PM   #32
David Johansen
 
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Default Re: The Future of the Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game?

It's easier to write adventures for a setting. Making a generic adventure that is also eye catching is always a bit harder.

Microsoft Word is awful, but the last I heard SJG will take any format a long as it isn't inserting a carriage return at the end of each line. It's been years since I bothered to look so that might have changed.

With so much support already in place for GURPS Dungeon Fantasy, it seems likely the two lines will simply run together in the future under one banner or the other. If Dungeon Fantasy isn't going forward the GURPS banner will probably become support for both.

For myself, maps and useful ideas are the main draw of adventures. There's this disconnect between people who buy adventures to read the story in them and people who buy adventures to run them in existing campaigns. I suspect the main purchasers of adventures are of the former type.

I guess there is another way to look at the future of DFRPG that we haven't really gotten to in this thread, which is how we fans can push the sales up enough to create enough demand for more support or a reprint. Kickstarter tends to soak up the majority of the demand for a product before it ever launches. So, if you want there to be more Dungeon Fantasy, buy more Dungeon Fantasy. Given that most of us probably got it all from the kickstarter, I hope SJG will throw us something new to buy sooner than later. ;)
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Old 02-15-2018, 03:11 PM   #33
Anthony
 
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Default Re: The Future of the Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game?

Looking over I Smell A Rat... (spoilers follow)

My first reaction to 'rats in a cellar leading to a deeper dungeon' is 'ugh, done that'. It's pretty much a cliche at this point. Going on from that:
The Cellar
Other than genre conventions, I don't see why PCs wouldn't just come in, kill the spiders, collect the heads, and be done. My experience is that PCs aren't going to bother spending multiple hours digging through dirt unless they have a pretty good idea there's something valuable or important behind it, and a door does not by itself qualify. Also, the rest of the adventure is reliant on the PCs fully illuminating the cellar (which they might not do) and making a roll.

As an encounter, seems fine.
Twisting Tunnel
Not a fan of "roll for random damage that's probably going to bounce anyway". Plus, given the way you get into the tunnel, the PCs have appropriate tools and are obviously in no hurry.
The Sewers
Once again, why are the PCs doing this? Also, again, the rest of the adventure is dependent on a single skill roll.
Smugglers' Den
More random stuff unconnected to the adventure concept.
Rune-Limned Gallery
There's no interesting challenge here, just automatic damage. I guess it's a way to prevent the PCs from clearing a room, returning to rest, etc, but there's less heavy handed ways of doing that.
Ritual Chamber
The Peshkali should have some dialog lines. This seems like a perfect opportunity to invite the PCs into the service of evil (presumably this invitation will fail, resulting in combat, but this thing is a guardian, not an ambusher).

This seems like a good point to remind the GM of the Recognition rules on Monsters p4, as this fight can't be won until someone figures out chopping off the arms (which they might do anyway -- if you can't kill it, disarm it -- but a hint would be very useful).

The challenges in this fight don't make much sense. Why doesn't the Peshkali tear down the false wall as soon as it becomes evident that the PCs are a threat? Or just command the zombies to come out and help?

The evil altar should have DR and HP (though it should also attempt to curse people who attack it); "blow it up" is a default delver response to anything weird.
Hidden Tomb
No comments other than the above.
Main Hallway, Cells
Why are monsters (that are on the same side as the bad guys) behind locked doors? They should probably trigger and come out when PCs do something. Also, the antimagic paint is interesting enough but doesn't seem to be relevant.
Library
The black book should be on the map. Also, there's a chance PCs will snipe the book from the hallway (a fireball would do nicely) in which case presumably the contents of the room will mostly survive.
Lab
I would expect players to try and do something about the cloud of poison, not just go bumbling about collecting alchemical supplies, and if they do decide to scrounge, that seems like a perfect time for the toxifier to attack.
Testing Area
The challenge in the testing area doesn't seem related to anything.
Blasted Passage
Is there a need to make the encounters here random?
End of the Line
This fight probably won't reach -HPx10 unless the PCs have overwhelming firepower, since Merle only has an 18- base consciousness roll. As boss fights go, it seems... boring.
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Last edited by Anthony; 02-15-2018 at 05:53 PM.
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Old 02-15-2018, 05:46 PM   #34
sir_pudding
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Default Re: The Future of the Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game?

Uh, spoilers?
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Old 02-15-2018, 05:53 PM   #35
Anthony
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Uh, spoilers?
Okay, added fnord...
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Old 02-15-2018, 07:08 PM   #36
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Default Re: The Future of the Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game?

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Originally Posted by Rasputin View Post
My issues with I Smell a Rat are how it's pitched. The DFRPG is designed for serious dungeon adventuring. I would have doubled-down on this, making a big Stonehell-like dungeon, with many rooms and levels in a maddening layout but less description.

"Dungeon" is part of the name. Embrace it.
I agree. Give me at least the start of a mega-dungeon. Then, who knows, a (fan based?) anthology of dungeons (similar to Robert Aspirin's "Thieves World") may flourish.

But, PLEASE, with player maps. The GM-only maps in DFRPG were the most disappointing part of the set. I can use everything else in the box but not them.
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Old 02-15-2018, 07:25 PM   #37
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Default Re: The Future of the Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Johansen View Post
It's easier to write adventures for a setting. Making a generic adventure that is also eye catching is always a bit harder.
I see no reason to assume this is true. There were many early D&D adventures that had no implied setting: Tomb of Horrors. Keep on the Borderlands. Expedition to the Barrier Peaks had little setting information, none of it needed. Caverns of Thracia had none whatsoever, and thatís pretty much the gold standard of adventures.
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Old 02-15-2018, 07:55 PM   #38
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One improvement I would make would be to have better descriptions of the evil temples. This is the money shot in the DF genre. Maybe have some sort of demon lord or arch devil with some characteristics to his appearance and what he is lord over (spiders, orcs, snakes etc.) if it is the real Christian Devil then have pentagrams, chalices for blood, statues of the Devil with a goat head and cloven hooves or something scary. Any Gygax demonic temples were filled with descriptions, colors used and items of significance (and also what type of rock was used).
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Old 02-15-2018, 08:02 PM   #39
David Johansen
 
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Default Re: The Future of the Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasputin View Post
I see no reason to assume this is true. There were many early D&D adventures that had no implied setting: Tomb of Horrors. Keep on the Borderlands. Expedition to the Barrier Peaks had little setting information, none of it needed. Caverns of Thracia had none whatsoever, and thatís pretty much the gold standard of adventures.
D&D has an implied setting that's basically Greyhawk. GURPS Dungeon Fantasy has town and the dungeon. Again, it's a question of adventures for readers verses adventures for people who actually play them. But it's the readers who buy the successful adventure lines like Pathfinder's Adventure paths.
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Old 02-15-2018, 08:06 PM   #40
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Another thing is to have the demons be truly evil. They promote sin and debauchery. They love to be cruel and make others suffer. They want your PCs souls so they can torment them for eternity. Demons are really delighted to harm the PCs even ones that are bound into service like the peshakali. It may be bound but it is still looking for souls and it is probably angry to be bound so it will take it out on the intruders.
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