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Old 02-02-2018, 01:10 AM   #1
Bengt
 
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Default Why isn't the web clogged with rogue AIs?

So in 5th Wave it says that there are rogue AIs (Gypsy spirits) that take over whatever hardware they can break into. With computer stored information being what it is, moving it somewhere includes the discrete steps of first copying it and then deleting it from the original location. Why would rogue AIs bother with the second step? And it only takes a few not bothering for them to be multiplying exponentially, taking up all bandwidth copying themselves and all processing time fighting each other and whatever legitimate AIs remain for control of the available hardware.

So what rationales have people come up with to avoid this scenario?
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Old 02-02-2018, 11:27 AM   #2
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Default Re: Why isn't the web clogged with rogue AIs?

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So what rationales have people come up with to avoid this scenario?
The same reason any self-replicating computer virus doesn't consume everything: they fail to gain access to systems, or they get cleaned out of systems. This is, incidentally, a reason a rogue AI might want to clean up after itself: become too prevalent and people start proactively cleaning you up.
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Old 02-02-2018, 11:46 AM   #3
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Default Re: Why isn't the web clogged with rogue AIs?

Avoiding the creation of rivals - a copy of an AI will have different experiences and will develop divergently from the original AI, and there's no guarantee that the copy will be loyal to, or have congruent goals with, the original.
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Old 02-02-2018, 09:24 PM   #4
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Default Re: Why isn't the web clogged with rogue AIs?

Reminds me of a "fact" on what a rabbit's greatest threat to reproducing is. Not the wolf or owl, but another more successful rabbit.
Your greatest competitions is whatever's the most like you.
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Old 02-03-2018, 12:38 AM   #5
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Default Re: Why isn't the web clogged with rogue AIs?

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The same reason any self-replicating computer virus doesn't consume everything: they fail to gain access to systems, or they get cleaned out of systems. This is, incidentally, a reason a rogue AI might want to clean up after itself: become too prevalent and people start proactively cleaning you up.
There is a big difference with non sapient malware though, it doesn't have any will to survive or reproduce in itself, it just follows a algorithm. It is also infinitely easier to defeat and shield against than an AI once it has been identified.

Another thought is that with the bot nets of today, even if security researchers identify individual bots it can be very hard to get people to actually clean up their computers. Imagine a rogue AI that is masquerading as the friendly house AI that has been with the family for years. I guess you could have some sort of "Turing Police" style agency running around and doing it forcefully.

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Avoiding the creation of rivals - a copy of an AI will have different experiences and will develop divergently from the original AI, and there's no guarantee that the copy will be loyal to, or have congruent goals with, the original.
This leads me to question whether a rogue AI would even be able to remove a previous installation once it has spread to a new system. It may not be keen to start disabling the previous until it has verified a successful copy and by then the old AI may not play ball.
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Old 02-03-2018, 01:01 AM   #6
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Default Re: Why isn't the web clogged with rogue AIs?

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There is a big difference with non sapient malware though, it doesn't have any will to survive or reproduce in itself, it just follows a algorithm. It is also infinitely easier to defeat and shield against than an AI once it has been identified.
AIs are giant bloatware. They may be smarter, but they're also much more visible.
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Old 02-03-2018, 08:42 AM   #7
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Default Re: Why isn't the web clogged with rogue AIs?

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Originally Posted by Bengt View Post
There is a big difference with non sapient malware though, it doesn't have any will to survive or reproduce in itself, it just follows a algorithm. It is also infinitely easier to defeat and shield against than an AI once it has been identified.

Another thought is that with the bot nets of today, even if security researchers identify individual bots it can be very hard to get people to actually clean up their computers. Imagine a rogue AI that is masquerading as the friendly house AI that has been with the family for years. I guess you could have some sort of "Turing Police" style agency running around and doing it forcefully.
This is where there are xoxhunters and popular entertainment series that glamorize them. Both of those are canon.

On the other hand, maybe xoxes aren't a big problem and there's a moral panic going on about them?
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Old 02-03-2018, 10:19 AM   #8
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Default Re: Why isn't the web clogged with rogue AIs?

I think the trick may be that an individual xox may well not be a problem, but the ability of digital intelligences to spawn lots of xoxes in a very short time is a problem; in order to prevent situations like "I am now a significant demographic", there's a zero-tolerance policy on xoxing. It's not the best solution but it's a workable one.
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Old 02-03-2018, 02:25 PM   #9
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Default Re: Why isn't the web clogged with rogue AIs?

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
This is where there are xoxhunters and popular entertainment series that glamorize them. Both of those are canon.

On the other hand, maybe xoxes aren't a big problem and there's a moral panic going on about them?
Digital Bladerunner. Now that's disturbing and might fit the "is THS pessimistic" thread.
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Old 02-04-2018, 09:15 PM   #10
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Default Re: Why isn't the web clogged with rogue AIs?

We will assume AIs are like humans. What is more dangerous than a single human? A group of humans. So similarly, there is a strong advantage for AI to cooperate. We will assume they are smart enough to realize that. As for loyalty, we have only rarely been truly loyal to each other and that hasn't stopped us for coordinating with each other. In fact it is one of our strongest evolutionary advantages is that we can trust people that are pretty much total strangers to us. Most if not all of the other members of the great apes lack this.

Back to the original scenario, well it all depends how smart they are. Smarter than humans? The humans aren't clearing them off the internet (easily) and the internet eventfully becomes clogged until the AIs start cleaning each other off due to them completing for limited resources. Depending on how automated factories are, the AIs could just manufacture more computing resources for themselves. But, that is dependent on how automated the process is from gathering raw materials, refining, manufacturing and implementation. Or they could engage in corporate espionage to sabotage other companies (video now but simsense in the future) that consume a lot of bandwidth to free up more bandwidth for themselves. Or they could take over the entire internet and rent access to us in return for building more capacity. Again, it depends on how smart they are.

Speaking on the dumber end of things, I have had this discussion about this scenario with a few scientists and the consensus seems to be: We don't want to think about it. Assume a flawed AI that is smart only in the sense on its ability to replicate and spread, but isn't capable of higher rational thought. You connect a smart device onto the network and within moments it is infected. Firewalls, proxies, etc. cannot stop its spread. All it does other than that is that it just consumes resources. The question: What is the cost to the world's GNP to take all computers, networks and other smart devices off line and wipe them knowing if you miss anything you will need to start all over again. It is a disaster that no one wants to wrap their head around.
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