Translating the concept of HP from D&D (and the like) to GURPS

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Varyon

And, yes, this does mean an unarmored Warrior is easier to hit and damage than a life sized cardboard cutout of him

Not sure why the rules don't just assume Dex 0 for objects, which would subtract 5 from those AC values.

[Aldric]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Not sure why the rules don't just assume Dex 0 for objects, which would subtract 5 from those AC values.

They did (3.0 or 3.5 if I recall correctly, but it's been a while and some editions since then(

But those quotes are from D&D Next DMG. And it's not like they say: You have to roll vs AC 11 to try to cut a piece of paper in half". It's more "If you as GM feel like this action is important, these are guidelines to assign AC to several materials"

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Varyon

A first level warrior of average stats doesn’t have a 55% chance to hit an AC 10 target if using 3d6, he has a 62.5% chance, because he still needs to roll a 9 or higher.

The 55% chance was a reference to the 9 on a d20. Also you are forgetting the two 3d6 systems are inverse to each other because you roll low in GURPS while you roll high in D&D. A 9 or higher on a D&D 3d6 is akin to a 11 or lower on GURPS 3d6.

Also because it has a sliding scale a highly skilled GURPS character with no penalties as only a 0.5% chance of critically failing and nice 9.3% chance of critically hitting.

By contrast a D&D character has a straight 5% of royally FUBARing themselves and a 5% chance of critically hitting a target regardless of how skilled they are:

"If the d20 roll for an attack is a 20, the attack hits regardless of any modifiers or the target’s AC. In addition, the attack is a critical hit, as explained later in this chapter. If the d20 roll for an attack is a 1, the attack misses regardless of any modifiers or the target’s AC." (PHB5 pg 194)

Hey but at least GURPS 3e's uber critical success table is gone. A 50% chance of critically hitting is a total nightmare.

[awesomenessofme1]

Originally Posted by maximara

The 55% chance was a reference to the 9 on a d20. Also you are forgetting the two 3d6 systems are inverse to each other because you roll low in GURPS while you roll high in D&D. A 9 or higher on a D&D 3d6 is akin to a 11 or lower on GURPS 3d6.

Also because it has a sliding scale a highly skilled GURPS character with no penalties as only a 0.5% chance of critically failing and nice 9.3% chance of critically hitting.

By contrast a D&D character has a straight 5% of royally FUBARing themselves and a 5% chance of critically hitting a target regardless of how skilled they are:

"If the d20 roll for an attack is a 20, the attack hits regardless of any modifiers or the target’s AC. In addition, the attack is a critical hit, as explained later in this chapter. If the d20 roll for an attack is a 1, the attack misses regardless of any modifiers or the target’s AC." (PHB5 pg 194)

Hey but at least GURPS 3e's uber critical success table is gone. A 50% chance of critically hitting is a total nightmare.

It's obviously cinematic and only intended for very high-powered campaigns, but GURPS Monster Hunters: Power Ups 1 adds a perk that lets you expand your critical success range to potentially as high as 9. You need base skill of 23+, effective skill of 19+, and Gunslinger/TBAM/Weapon Master, though.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1

It's obviously cinematic and only intended for very high-powered campaigns, but GURPS Monster Hunters: Power Ups 1 adds a perk that lets you expand your critical success range to potentially as high as 9. You need base skill of 23+, effective skill of 19+, and Gunslinger/TBAM/Weapon Master, though.

Wow that is far more generous then the Compendium I's critical hit table where you needed a effectively 30-34 skill to get a 9 as a critical success.

[awesomenessofme1]

Originally Posted by maximara

Wow that is far more generous then the Compendium I's critical hit table where you needed a effectively 30-34 skill to get a 9 as a critical success.

Well, it's intended for Monster Hunters campaigns, which start off at 400 points. It's a leveled perk. Requires 19/17, 21/18, and 23/19 base/effective skill to get a crit number of 7, 8, or 9.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1

Well, it's intended for Monster Hunters campaigns, which start off at 400 points. It's a leveled perk. Requires 19/17, 21/18, and 23/19 base/effective skill to get a crit number of 7, 8, or 9.

That is still more generous then what Compendium II gave you:

20-24: crit number of 7
25-29: crit number of 8
30-34: crit number of 9
35+: crit number of 10

Of course that was offset by being a modified score but remember 3e had far fewer bonuses to skill level then 4e does so the base was likely within a few levels of the modified score.

[awesomenessofme1]

Originally Posted by maximara

That is still more generous then what Compendium II gave you:

20-24: crit number of 7
25-29: crit number of 8
30-34: crit number of 9
35+: crit number of 10

Of course that was offset by being a modified score but remember 3e had far fewer bonuses to skill level then 4e does so the base was likely within a few levels of the modified score.

How on earth did people have skill levels that high? And is that modified or base? Because for ranged weapons, effective skill would be lower than base.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by maximara

That is still more generous then what Compendium II gave you:

20-24: crit number of 7
25-29: crit number of 8
30-34: crit number of 9
35+: crit number of 10

Of course that was offset by being a modified score but remember 3e had far fewer bonuses to skill level then 4e does so the base was likely within a few levels of the modified score.

Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1

How on earth did people have skill levels that high? And is that modified or base? Because for ranged weapons, effective skill would be lower than base.

As far as getting skill levels that remember it clearly states that these were modified skill levels. As for getting skill that high thanks to the way stats were done in 3e it was far cheaper to send a skill off into orbit then an ability.

Even in 3e you had accuracy and aim bonuses so if you are close enough any penalties could be nullified and if you were close enough and aimed long enough you could actually get a bonus.

To get accuracy bonus you aimed for 1 second and +1 for each second afterward for a maximum of 3 seconds. So being able to aim a short bow for 4 seconds gets you a +4 to hit a normal sized target (+1 for the accuracy and +3 aiming for 3 seconds)...assuming your target doesn't move during that time.

If you had 3e version of Zen Archery then for 20-Skill turns you could only have 1/3 the penalties (round down) to normal penalties for target speed, range and size. 4e changes the mechanic to where you have to aim for 32 (!) turns to nullify any penalties to the Zen Archery skill itself though aiming for 1 turn puts it at -5 which is somewhat reasonable.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Not sure why the rules don't just assume Dex 0 for objects, which would subtract 5 from those AC values.

Been a while since I played That Other Game, so forgot this possibility. That gives a person punching an immobile man-sized target at default (+0 in DnD, DX+3 - 13 - in GURPS, thanks to evaluate) an 80% chance to hit in DnD, an ~84% chance in GURPS, which isn’t too terrible (the disparity is worse when comparing trained-but-rookie combatants, at 85% vs 95%, but still not horrible).

Originally Posted by maximara

[snip]

This ultimately comes down to the difference between using 3d6 and 1d20 for resolution (you’ll get no argument from me there, 3d6 is better), and all I was trying to do was refute the idea that d20 characters must have laughably low skill compared to GURPS characters. I feel I’ve done well enough at this goal. Yes, d20 has serious issues, and I feel GURPS is overall a far better system (particularly in that it gives you so many more options, in combat and elsewhere).