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Old 02-17-2018, 01:56 AM   #101
Leonidas
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Milan, Italy
Default Re: Hold Fire in Ogre/GEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeard1999 View Post
That might be an interesting rule, but it doesnít really address the issues that I raised at the beginning of the thread. I also donít see it as being any less intrusive than the standard Hold Fire rule. But, if itís fun and you like it, Iíd say go with it.
I see your point, however. on my side, I will try to playtest a very simple rule. A unit may enter into HF status provided it did not move and fire (Unit must sacrifices movement). The unit in HF may fire once during enemy movement phase with immediate effect at an enemy unit entering or moving within attack range (if a unit exits the attack range if a HF unit, it canít be fired upon...missed opportunity). HF attacj cannot be combined with other attacks from other HF units. If a unit in HF status is fired upon, it looses automatically such status even with a miss. This may happen if the attacking unit fis firing fron a greater range.
If a unit in HF is attacked in melee, it loses the HF status and overrun attack follows as normal.

Exception: Gev may move and anter in HF status, but must sacrifice the second movement phase. Given they low attack strenght and the fact that HF cannot be combined, it has impact only in great gev numbers.

Ogres may enter into HF status, but they must sacrifice all movement.

It is a sort if overwatch rule. It may help to defend vital objectives without leading to superturtling.

I am not sure how this will alter a game that I find perfect as it is, but my version makes perfect sense to me (quite clearly).
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Old 02-19-2018, 10:01 AM   #102
Macunaima
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Nova BrasŪlia
Default Re: Hold Fire in Ogre/GEV

Here is the rule I would use:

Units that do not move or fire in their turn get a reaction fire marker. After the enemyís first movement phase but before his combat phase, units marked with the reaction fire marker can conduct a combat phase of their own.

Reaction fire markers are not removed if the unit participates in overrun combat.

This, to me, would be a simple way to address the problem mentioned in the beginning of this thread.

Scenarios would have to be tweaked to take this rule into consideration. An increase in the attacking force of 20%, perhaps?
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Old 02-19-2018, 10:56 AM   #103
tbeard1999
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
Default Re: Hold Fire in Ogre/GEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macunaima View Post
Here is the rule I would use:

Units that do not move or fire in their turn get a reaction fire marker. After the enemyís first movement phase but before his combat phase, units marked with the reaction fire marker can conduct a combat phase of their own.

Reaction fire markers are not removed if the unit participates in overrun combat.

This, to me, would be a simple way to address the problem mentioned in the beginning of this thread.

Scenarios would have to be tweaked to take this rule into consideration. An increase in the attacking force of 20%, perhaps?
I donít see any reason to limit hold fire to units that didnít move, so Iíll stick with my proposed rule. The problems I discussed werenít necessarily limited to stationary units.

As I noted earlier, stabilized gun systems 70 years from now will likely make firing on the move no different than firing while stationary.
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Old 02-19-2018, 11:15 AM   #104
sir_pudding
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: Hold Fire in Ogre/GEV

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Originally Posted by tbeard1999 View Post
As I noted earlier, stabilized gun systems 70 years from now will likely make firing on the move no different than firing while stationary.
Although you would also need guided munitions to have any chance of hitting moving targets with indirect fires.
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Old 02-19-2018, 12:42 PM   #105
Rolando
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Default Re: Hold Fire in Ogre/GEV

I admit I didn't read every single page, mostly the page 1, 2 and the last pages... I thing many are forgetting the OGRE technology facts we have.

Firing at a moving target, any speed, is easy. most of the defense in ogre units is EWar/electronics and point defense, and of course armor for near misses.

All indirect fire munitions are micronuclear multiple warhead in intelligent missile like "bullets". the intelligent bullet reach the area and explodes in multiple intelligent micronuclear munitions that seek possible targets and in microseconds they acquire the targets and reach them. they are also shaped charge nuclear munitions, so a direct hit is basically instant kill (even if all armor is designed to spread shaped charge warhead damage, functioning as laminated armor) but a near miss is also a terrible explosion to deal with. the difference in damage is due to munition caliber, bigger diameter munitions carry more micronuclear skillets and , in the case of the howitzers, they fire intelligent missile that dodge and do very sneaky things, like using a few forward missiles as decoys and a few others trailing back to speed for the kill when the point defense is blinded by the explosion of the decoys, and even landing and waiting in place like intelligent mines if their fuel supply (I think they use some battery and ducted fans but don't remember right now, have to take a look at GURPS OGRE) is emptied.

All tanks and GEVs use direct fire SABOT ammo too, but only in close ranges (less than about a mile), what would be considered an overrun in the game.

Point defense is done by automated guns mostly identical to anti personal guns in OGRES and Super Heavy Tanks.

Point is, been 70 miles per hour fast is just as useful as going 30 miles/hour fast, maybe worst as faster vehicles are easier to detect.

The game works the way it work because many of the decisions were done like that, simple and fun, but the game may be improved (for some of us) with a "Hold Fire" mechanic, it will still be very simple (comparing it to ASL is ridiculous in my opinion) but will not play the same.

The balance of the game will change, sure, a GEVs may not cost the same as a Heavy Tank with an Hold Fire option. Or maybe they will be as useful (same cost), just not the best non ogre offensive unit. GEV's will still be able to outmaneuver tanks and will still be the best units for breakthroughs, and will still be the only units able to close many units vs a single target and then disperse "far" away.

Now, about the rule, I don't see a reason to limit it for units that didn't moved. I think there are background stories of tanks doing just that "holding fire" actions on the move (basically moving and taking a shot against a few GEVs, smoking one before getting wrecked by the enemy barrage).

You just have to add a marker for the few units holding fire. And the rest of the game will be the same, not more complex nor terribly slower, just a marker for the few units holding fire, a marked removed at the start of your next turn.
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