Local Stores Don't Carry GURPS any more

[Teclis]

At the local store where I'm recently started running a 3rd edition Cyberpunk/ Robots/Car Wars campaign I have a group of eager and enthusiastic teenaged players who have whole hardheadedly taken up the game.

As, unfortunately GURPS 3rd edition has been out of print for some time, the only place some one can purchase it is through Warehouse 23. If someone were to inquire at any of the local gaming store or comic book shops about purchasing GURPS or any GURPS material they would be disappointed.

What do people think of the idea of SJ Games providing some form of monitory incentive for local gaming stores to promote esales of GURPS from Warehouse 23? Maybe SJ Games could put web kiosks in stores and people can buy GURPS material directly from Warehouse 23 via the kiosk and the local retailer hosting the kiosk could get a percentage. The kiosk could download the books directly onto a USB key for the purchaser or even print it full color using a off the self laser printer.

[Sindri]

Originally Posted by Teclis

As, unfortunately GURPS 3rd edition has been out of print for some time, the only place some one can purchase it is through Warehouse 23. If someone were to inquire at any of the local gaming store or comic book shops about purchasing GURPS or any GURPS material they would be disappointed.

There's a big difference between local stores no longer carrying GURPS books and local stores no longer carrying GURPS books for an obsolete edition. It's not reasonable to expect local stores to be a reliable source of a previous edition's books.

Originally Posted by Teclis

What do people think of the idea of SJ Games providing some form of monitory incentive for local gaming stores to promote esales of GURPS from Warehouse 23? Maybe SJ Games could put web kiosks in stores and people can buy GURPS material directly from Warehouse 23 via the kiosk and the local retailer hosting the kiosk could get a percentage. The kiosk could download the books directly onto a USB key for the purchaser or even print it full color using a off the self laser printer.

I think it's ridiculous. First of all I think you're vastly overestimating the amount of funds SJ Games has to throw at random projects. Putting web kiosks (possibly containing colour-POD capability!) is not only something they couldn't justify for GURPS's profitability (even if they could invest that kind of money in GURPS, there are way more useful things to put it into. Like more GURPS books.) it doesn't really do anything useful. If you want a PDF just download it at home or from a mobile device, you don't need a web kiosk for that. Unless you need a physical book immediately it would be better to get a book made at a print shop or order it POD from SJ Games since it would be cheaper to finally set up a POD service than a bunch of web kiosks. Finally after investing all that money in dubiously useful web kiosks the last thing SJ Games would want is to make less money from the purchases.

[Turhan's Bey Company]

Originally Posted by Sindri

There's a big difference between local stores no longer carrying GURPS books and local stores no longer carrying GURPS books for an obsolete edition. It's not reasonable to expect local stores to be a reliable source of a previous edition's books.

His point is that 3rd edition was the last time game stores could carry lots of GURPS, because that was when it was all physical products, not that they should be expected to carry 3rd edition.

Originally Posted by Sindri

First of all I think you're vastly overestimating the amount of funds SJ Games has to throw at random projects.

I believe the current marketing budget is two bucks and a week-old cheese sandwich, and I'm not sure about the two bucks.

[Andrew Hackard]

Originally Posted by Sindri

Unless you need a physical book immediately it would be better to get a book made at a print shop or order it POD from SJ Games since it would be cheaper to finally set up a POD service than a bunch of web kiosks.

Consider that after several YEARS of looking into setting up a POD operation, we decided the money would be better spent converting the designated POD space into offices and hiring more staff. If we aren't going to be doing POD ourselves, we certainly aren't going to be underwriting stores' own POD operations.

Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company

I believe the current marketing budget is two bucks and a week-old cheese sandwich, and I'm not sure about the two bucks.

The marketing budget is pretty healthy, actually, but we have to spend it where we're most likely to see a return. Right now, that's card, dice, and board games. From our research, most gamers today aren't looking for new generic RPGs to try -- either they already have their favorite games that they play, they're looking to play the official licensed RPG for their favorite setting, or they just aren't interesting in roleplaying at all.

[philreed]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard

. . . or they just aren't interesting in roleplaying at all.

The size of the RPG section in most game stores supports this.

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by philreed

The size of the RPG section in most game stores supports this.

Eh, in my high-school group I do not think that the majority of the group bought any books in ten years. Once they had what books they needed to play a couple of systems which they enjoyed, why spend the money? Another bought a certain number and pirated a certain number, and another spent most of his resources on miniatures wargames. One of the most popular systems was 1e AD&D with a DMG with the papers coming loose and some creaky PHBs. I bought things by some of the smaller gaming companies fairly often, but I never played most of it.

I do not think that sales of paper books in game stores correlate to what happens around the spare table on Friday and Saturday nights. Sad for people in the RPG industry, but probably one reason why SJG makes more money from card and board games than from books.

[DarkPumpkin]

Originally Posted by Teclis

Maybe SJ Games could put web kiosks in stores and people can buy GURPS material directly from Warehouse 23 via the kiosk and the local retailer hosting the kiosk could get a percentage. The kiosk could download the books directly onto a USB key for the purchaser or even print it full color using a off the self laser printer.

I admire the OP's enthusiasm and love the idea of an alternate universe where there's a futuristic "web kiosk" in the local mall where queues form to wait for the machine to spit put their selected GURPS 3e book, PoD'd on the spot...

[robertsconley]

For niche RPG products the way to get ahead in the current economy to have an small army of influencers with the right to produce support for the system. With the main publisher still producing "official" works.

There isn't a RPG company including Wizards who have the resources to cover all the area where hobbyists gather. However in order to get people interested in being those influencers is that they have some kind of stake in the deal. Which in my experience provides that added push to go out and do the promotion that the parent company doesn't have the resources for.

That would the need to have local stores carry one's products for that line on their shelves.

Also what does it take for a store to order a GURPS Product if a customer is interested? So I am a influencer and a hobbyists at a store wants to buy GURPS products. Despite the changes in the economics, gaming stores are still a prime location to meet and play with other hobbyists. So it would be rude and ill considered to refer somebody to Warehouse23 or Amazon.

How difficult is for the game store owner to special order a copy of a GURPS Product?

[David Johansen]

If your distributor doesn't carry GURPS it's a bit harder, you have to order direct from SJG's Warehouse 23. I've done it once and once I figured out why the shipping kept coming up so high it went smoothly. There are some books that are available from the warehouse that aren't available from Warehouse 23. I can't quite justify ordering cases of books right now. I've also got Dungeon Fantasy on order through kickstarter, though that isn't any kind of good business sense. It ties up capital or credit for far too long for too little return. I really appreciate that SJG has decent retailer kickstarter reward levels. But that same cash could have me product I can sell in a couple days. So it's still a case of supporting GURPS as a retailer because I irrationally want to support GURPS.

I've talked about in store print on demand as the way of the future but the infrastructure just isn't there yet and you need to convince publishers that giving retailers a discount on pdfs is to their benefit. You also have to convince gamers that paying for a book is better than downloading an illegal copy which seems to be the biggest problem the rpg industry faces these days.