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08-09-2010, 07:23 PM | #1 |
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Los Angeles County
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Knee Strikes, Shock, counter Grappling, Takedowns, Arm Locks, and Two-Wapon Attacks.
I have questions, I think you people have answers! I also think you will be happy to help me. I know I will appreciate help.
1a) MA78 says if you grappled an opponent from the front your knee strikes are at an advantage. In my mind knee strikes are the classic counter to grappling. Is this supported by the rules? 1b) That page says "...you may attack his groin at no penalty!". Are you still at -1 for the technique? 2a) B419 says that shock applies "...on your next turn only.", B363 says that your turn is from one maneuver to the next maneuver and "This overlaps the turns of other characters." Does this mean that if I hit my foe on one turn and then try to break out of a grapple on the next he takes a shock penalty on the quick contest? 2b) If 2a is true, and shock only applies on your next turn, would he NOT take a penalty if I tried to break out as part of the same maneuver that I hit him with? 3) If someone is grappling me and I want to grapple him back is he at any kind of penalty to defend? 4a) After I make a takedown I know that I can kneel as part of a later attack to get in range but what about my grapple? If I plan to pin I need to keep it and you can't grapple a prone foe standing. Are you assumed to fallow him to the ground? 4b) What affect does being grappled have on the Change Posture maneuver? The box on page B371 seems indifferent. 5a) I need two hands to make an arm lock but after that do I still need two to hold on? 5b) Is the +4 to hold on on top of the +5 for using two hands? 5c) Do I count as grappling an arm I have in a lock? 5d) Is it possible to pin someone with an arm lock? 6) If I attack with an arm and a leg am I rapid striking or dual-weapon attacking? |
08-09-2010, 07:47 PM | #2 | ||||
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: Knee Strikes, Shock, counter Grappling, Takedowns, Arm Locks, and Two-Wapon Attac
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Anyway, no, counter-grapping isn't automatic. If you're feeling confident, though, you could AoA (double) to counter-grapple and knee-strike in the same turn and invoke the brutal Grab and Smash rules from MA118. But your opponent seems pretty well positioned to thwart your attempt to counter-grapple if they didn't AoA to grab you. Quote:
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I don't see why you couldn't do that as a DWA if you wanted to.
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I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident. |
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08-10-2010, 06:08 AM | #3 | ||||||||||||
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dobbstown Sane Asylum
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Re: Knee Strikes, Shock, counter Grappling, Takedowns, Arm Locks, and Two-Wapon Attac
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Reverend Pee Kitty of the Order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Twitter) (LJ) MyGURPS: My house rules and GURPS resources.
#SJGamesLive: I answered questions about GURPS After the End and more! {Watch Video} - {Read Transcript} |
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08-10-2010, 10:21 AM | #4 |
GURPS Line Editor
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
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Re: Knee Strikes, Shock, counter Grappling, Takedowns, Arm Locks, and Two-Wapon Attac
It seems that RPK got to this before I did . . .
I'll just underline that in GURPS, each fighter is responsible for his own grapple. Grapples are not egalitarian or reflexive. While the real-world situation is overwhelmingly that as soon as A grapples B, B grapples A right back, GURPS doesn't force you to do this. For all intents and purposes, if A grapples B and B doesn't grapple back, A "has position," is in control, and is assumed to have any of several holds that, while not fight-ending submissions, are definitely advantageous. Thus, until B grapples back, A has every advantage over B. In particular, A has no penalties, and can in fact use Knee Strike more effectively and escalate his grapple into an attempt at a takedown, pin, lock, etc.; his sole difficulty is that he must relinquish his grapple to use his hands or to retreat. Whereas B is at -4 to DX; at -2 to Block or Parry, and at -1 to Dodge; can't attack or defend with a grappled limb; can't retreat or use Acrobatic Dodge; and gets no special treatment when throwing a Knee Strike or trying a grappling move. Once B grapples back, A and B both can use Knee Strike more effectively; try to initiate a takedown, pin, lock, etc.; have -4 to DX; and suffer -2 to Block or Parry, and -1 to Dodge. Neither can attack or defend with a grappled limb, or retreat or use Acrobatic Dodge. Consequently, it's to your advantage to be the one who grapples first. By initiating, you create a situation where your foe is at a penalty to return the favor. If he isn't very skilled, you can gain control early and dominate the fight. If he's skilled enough to absorb a -4, though, or just willing to make an All-Out Attack, then this advantage is only momentary. If he insists on not grappling back . . . well, that's his problem.
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Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News] |
08-11-2010, 11:29 AM | #5 | |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: Knee Strikes, Shock, counter Grappling, Takedowns, Arm Locks, and Two-Wapon Attac
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In GURPS, GSP manages to pull off, with spectacular success rate, A-grapples-B without the poor Schub B getting him back.
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08-11-2010, 11:41 AM | #6 |
GURPS Line Editor
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
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Re: Knee Strikes, Shock, counter Grappling, Takedowns, Arm Locks, and Two-Wapon Attac
GSP is exploiting the +4 for being Canadian, though. ;)
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Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News] |
08-11-2010, 11:52 AM | #7 |
Join Date: Jun 2010
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Re: Knee Strikes, Shock, counter Grappling, Takedowns, Arm Locks, and Two-Wapon Attac
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08-11-2010, 12:48 PM | #8 |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: Knee Strikes, Shock, counter Grappling, Takedowns, Arm Locks, and Two-Wapon Attac
People don't notice you so you slip in under their guard? :-X
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My blog:Gaming Ballistic, LLC My Store: Gaming Ballistic on Shopify My Patreon: Gaming Ballistic on Patreon |
08-10-2010, 11:42 AM | #9 | ||
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Los Angeles County
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Re: Knee Strikes, Shock, counter Grappling, Takedowns, Arm Locks, and Two-Wapon Attac
Wow two line editors! Thanks guys this clears up most of my questions! But not all...
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One more thing: How do you pin someone with an arm lock? Again B370 says you can only pin someone you are grappling by the torso. Thanks again guys! |
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08-10-2010, 11:57 AM | #10 | |||
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dobbstown Sane Asylum
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Re: Knee Strikes, Shock, counter Grappling, Takedowns, Arm Locks, and Two-Wapon Attac
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YOU: Grapple HIM: Fail to break free YOU: Takedown HIM: Change posture to kneeling YOU: Pin Of course, it might be more realistic to impose some restriction on changing posture when grappled, but I'm not an expert on the real-world physics of wrestling and such. I'm just interpreting the game rules. Quote:
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Reverend Pee Kitty of the Order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Twitter) (LJ) MyGURPS: My house rules and GURPS resources.
#SJGamesLive: I answered questions about GURPS After the End and more! {Watch Video} - {Read Transcript} |
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combat rules, kromm explanation, martial arts |
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