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Old 11-12-2017, 09:18 PM   #11
Michael Thayne
 
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy and HT Rolls -> Death

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
I used the rules that these are derived from from GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 2: Dungeons frequently in my last DF game. I found that for the most part the PCs did enough damage that most monsters that it makes sense to treat as minions would have suffered a major wound anyway, so really having them stop fighting with any hit that did damage was just a time saving measure that didn't change the difficulty of the encounter or its outcome.
This won't be true if some party members (like the Wizard) lack high-damage attacks. Also major wound != out of the fight. If it wasn't a face hit, there's a good chance the monster will make the HT roll, and if it fails but it was only one of a horde, delivering the coup de grace vs. dealing with other members of the horde is a real dilemma. And if they don't deliver the coup de grace, it might succeed on the roll to recover at any time.

Worthy vs. boss can also make a big, big difference if a monster's HT score is high.
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Old 11-12-2017, 09:30 PM   #12
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy and HT Rolls -> Death

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Originally Posted by Michael Thayne View Post
This won't be true if some party members (like the Wizard) lack high-damage attacks.
Those Magery*3d explosions are significant enough for me.
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Also major wound != out of the fight. If it wasn't a face hit, there's a good chance the monster will make the HT roll, and if it fails but it was only one of a horde, delivering the coup de grace vs. dealing with other members of the horde is a real dilemma. And if they don't deliver the coup de grace, it might succeed on the roll to recover at any time.
IMO, Joe Goblin Bandit doesn't want to die, and is willing to lie down if he knows he is beat, and getting near split in half by some enormous cornfed longshanks with a sword that costs more than your whole village is the gods' own special way of telling you, Joe-me-son, are beat.
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Worthy vs. boss can also make a big, big difference if a monster's HT score is high.
Sure, and high HT dudes tend to be bosses. Besides, most worthies are pros, if they make an honorable showing they don't need to fight until they are burger. That's how you get to be a pro.

Last edited by sir_pudding; 11-12-2017 at 09:40 PM.
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Old 11-12-2017, 09:48 PM   #13
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy and HT Rolls -> Death

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Those Magery*3d explosions are significant enough for me.
Oh, I was thinking more about if the wizard is cornered (perhaps the party gets ambushed from behind) and low on FP, so he can do nothing but whack the orc with his quarterstaff. It does 1d+2 damage, orc has 2 DR and 12 HP, only on a lucky roll is that a major wound.

Your other points are often valid, but may not apply to, say, a horde of mindless zombies that don't care if they're destroyed.
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Old 11-12-2017, 09:57 PM   #14
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy and HT Rolls -> Death

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Oh, I was thinking more about if the wizard is cornered (perhaps the party gets ambushed from behind) and low on FP, so he can do nothing but whack the orc with his quarterstaff. It does 1d+2 damage, orc has 2 DR and 12 HP, only on a lucky roll is that a major wound.
Sure, and I said "for the most part the PCs do enough damage". Note that three points of damage is still a solid hit, the orc is definitely going to feel that, and he sees his buddies getting skewered and sliced all around him. In practice if you actually gamed it out, the orc isn't going to make much difference even if he does live another turn or two when the other PCs catch up with him.
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Your other points are often valid, but may not apply to, say, a horde of mindless zombies that don't care if they're destroyed.
Sure, but those kinds of things tend to have Fragile (Unnatural) anyway. It also isn't hard to imagine a room of partially dissected and on fire horde zombies ineffectually crawling about.
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Old 11-13-2017, 03:10 AM   #15
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy and HT Rolls -> Death

Don't monsters need to roll for Morale when they are badly hurt and the PCs aren't? A monster getting enough of being cut, sting, and burned might just runaway.
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Old 11-14-2017, 06:27 AM   #16
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I really appreciate all your answers. Thanks.

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So if there's an anticlimax, it's more a result of play style (i.e., revealing HP to the players) than game mechanics. If the GM thinks it's fairer to reveal HP, well, I'd recommend exaggerating HP for high-HT creatures. If the players have the impression that the HP 10, HT 15 monster is a HP 60 foe, and that enemy gets unlucky and fails an early HT roll, the victory will seem unexpected and sweet! However you handle it, the unpredictability of HT rolls serves to prevent players from getting too cocky (and frankly, mechanical) about anticipating victory.
I never reveal the HP of a monster, but my players know the mechanics, and when they hit a monster really well and they see me rolling HT, they notice right away, when I make the death roll and I THINK this is anticlimatic to them.

I have the impression that the mechanic who is rolling when is making combat sometimes a bit cumbersome (chomping hp away and hitting "boundaries")
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Old 11-14-2017, 09:19 AM   #17
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy and HT Rolls -> Death

A solution is to roll dice whenever a monster is hit!

In my own GMing style, I perpetually fidget with dice anyway, so the players don't know when I'm rolling and when I'm just fidgeting. This becomes a reflex: Casually toss 3d whenever you mark off damage. Only bother to register what the dice say if that actually matters.

If you have a GM screen, the players will never know what the results are even when you are rolling for real.

Regardless, never let the players know for sure why you are rolling or even if you actually needed to roll at all.
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Old 11-14-2017, 09:49 AM   #18
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy and HT Rolls -> Death

Just to show another view: I find the HT rolls very climax-building. First it's "oh no, oh no, he passed, we're doomed!" and then there's "woohoo, he didn't make it, we're alive!".
To be fair, I was personally somewhat disappointed when the toughest half-orc in one of my other campaigns dropped quickly after getting below 0 HP, due to unlucky rolls, but my players cheered away, and the session was quite memorable.
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Old 11-14-2017, 11:59 AM   #19
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy and HT Rolls -> Death

I completely agree with what Dr. Kromm is saying.

However, I don't use a screen other than my initiative cards on occasion and when I'm teaching the game, I'll explain how the mechanics work, even for the GM. It's become such habit, that it often happens in my regular games anyway. The biggest difference is that I don't track enemy HP visibly in my regular games.

It gives away some of it, but as Gnomasz said, they get the benefit of the build up watching the dice and knowing what I'm rolling against.
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:49 PM   #20
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy and HT Rolls -> Death

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
A solution is to roll dice whenever a monster is hit!

In my own GMing style, I perpetually fidget with dice anyway, so the players don't know when I'm rolling and when I'm just fidgeting. This becomes a reflex: Casually toss 3d whenever you mark off damage. Only bother to register what the dice say if that actually matters.

If you have a GM screen, the players will never know what the results are even when you are rolling for real.

Regardless, never let the players know for sure why you are rolling or even if you actually needed to roll at all.
I see, Dr. Kromm. I see.

I GM for over 10 years now and have the habit to roll openly in a shared dice tray and usually everyone loves that and it builds tension. But I will try to build more tension like others have said and do some fake rolls behind the screen. Will see how this works out.
Thank you for the input everyone! Was really worth to post here, now off I go to buy the dungeon fantasy rpg ;)
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