Sniper mini-game?

[ericthered]

My experience with snipers in play is that when they're shooting and everything is working, they feel really good, and the mission goes according to plan. Beating them requires another sniper or vehicles.



The challenge comes when they fail one of their setup rolls. That's when they go from the strongest member of the team, to the weakest and everyone scrambles to try and save the exposed sniper.

[mlangsdorf]

Originally Posted by briansommers

Thanks, I’m good.

I was looking into that with tactical shooting but now it’s almost the opposite - maybe my first “problem” with GURPS - and that is when an effective skill gets so high, what’s the point of rolling? I guess there is the chance of rolling a 17, 18.

High effective skill goes away pretty quickly as penalties increase. A skilled but realistic sniper (Guns-16, Targeted Attack Rifle/Vitals +2) shooting a scoped, precision rifle from a blind with all the time to aim is looking at effective skill around 27 to shoot the vitals, before range modifiers. Toss in the -16 penalty to hit at 1,000 yards, and it's only a little better than a coin flip.

You could also adjust the scenario. For instance, in the movie Enemy at the Gates, at one point the sniper has to kill 5 German infantry, at relatively close range, before any of them notice the shots (and the bodies). So the sniper doesn't have the luxury of aiming forever, he has to take his shots when there is noise (to mask the sound of his shooting) and the Germans aren't looking the right way, and he's using a poorly maintained infantry rifle that has a total of 5 rounds of ammunition. So it becomes a very tense scene despite the sniper's skill.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

What levels of Skill are you looking at? Aiming for the Skull is -7 and 300 yards of distance is -13. Are you thinking about Skills greater than 36?

If that is the problem you maybe giving out too many cp for starting characters. Or not designing well-rounded characters. DX16 is 120 pts and Guns +20 is 76 but even for 250 pt games that not a very practical design.

+5-6 Acc, +2-3 for a scope, +2 for time, +1 for bracing, +1 for AoA gives +11 to +13, which largely or entirely offsets the range penalty, so without optional rules for longer aim and bigger aim bonuses needing a 16- means a skill of 23-25. Still pretty high, but not astronomical. However, at 300 yards a skull shot should be very hard to pull off reliably. Skill 19-21 gives you a 16- Vitals shot.

By the way, these numbers are why I'm unconvinced by arguments that GURPS needs rules for better aim bonuses to make sniping work.

[Outlaw]

Originally Posted by Rupert

However, at 300 yards a skull shot should be very hard to pull off reliably. Skill 19-21 gives you a 16- Vitals shot.

Barring extreme factors, 300 yd head shots for trained snipers with a precision rifle are all but guaranteed. An $800 DPMS AR-10 and a $200 scope from Academy (sports/hunting store) and I can easily pull it off > 85% of the time. However, a run of the mill soldier wouldn't even be as good as me since they hardly ever fire their weapons in peace time. Run of the mill police officers are even worse with their handguns.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Outlaw

However, a run of the mill soldier wouldn't even be as good as me since they hardly ever fire their weapons in peace time.

I was a reservist and we did mortar shoots every other month practically, rifle quals annually, and two or three other live fire exercises with rifles each year. Active duty 03 Marines do the same but spend more time on these exercises (not being limited to weekends). What would count as not "hardly ever"?

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

I was a reservist and we did mortar shoots every other month practically, rifle quals annually, and two or three other live fire exercises with rifles each year. Active duty 03 Marines do the same but spend more time on these exercises (not being limited to weekends). What would count as not "hardly ever"?

Using the rifles the no more than four occasions a year you mentioned sounds like it would be 'hardly ever' compared to even a very casual recreational shooter. I'd guess that you've glossed over some more-frequent practice, though?

[Outlaw]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

What would count as not "hardly ever"?

Granted, the Corps is different and I should have noted that exception, but not that much different.

Other than that, what Ulzgoroth said.

I've worn out multiple firearms since I got my first 9mm auto at 17 years old. No, "run of the mill", peace time soldier has ever worn out a brand new rifle during his tour. I know heavier weapons may be different but the OP was talking about rifles.

Note that by, "worn out", I mean to the point of needing major replacement parts, most notably barrels. I'm usually ready for something new when that happens so at that point, it's off to the gun show to trade.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by briansommers

I was looking into that with tactical shooting but now it’s almost the opposite - maybe my first “problem” with GURPS - and that is when an effective skill gets so high, what’s the point of rolling? I guess there is the chance of rolling a 17, 18.

Either cap skill or set up scenarios where skill penalties are high enough that high skill is required to have any reasonable chance of success, like using Stealth to cross open bround in full view of the enemy or vs. enemies with access to electronic sensors that augment vision/hearing.

You will also need some sort of randomization for enemies, terrain, weather conditions, etc. to improve replay value. GURPS 3E Special Ops has OPFOR templates which are easily adaptable or you could use the more generic Mook/Henchman/Boss type templates from GURPS 4E Action.