GURPS Assassin's Creed

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

Check out Pyramid 3-10, page 10, the Il Lavore Veloce style. Pretty much custom designed for shanking people AC style.

Interesting. I did not know that this Pyramid included a martial art style.

Are there any new Perks or techniques with it or is it just a sorting of skills that any GM could do on his own?

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

Styles, I'd give him a fencing style of your choice as well as Il Lavore Veloce.

Fencing?

From what I recall of the fighting in the game, Ezio is nearly always using heavier swords than most fencing weapons and using them in a manner that recalls his ancestor Altair. That is, he's not using a fencing stance and while he does Retreat, he certainly does not do it once per second.

I'd call his best weapon skills Knife and Broadsword, not Main-Gauche and Rapier. But I'm willing to be convinced otherwise by someone who has played the game extensively.

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

Advantages: fit or very fit, CR, he's nobility if currently a little disgraced, so probably status and wealth.

I think that the player wanted to be able to do the things that Ezio could, not actually play the same character. So the nobility hook is not necessary, I should think. At least, the player indicated that a bourgeois origin would be acceptable.

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

I think you could probably do a very credible Assassins Creed impression by using the Assassin template from DF12, pg 9. Just need to tart him up a bit for TL 4.

I don't own that, sorry.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by rosignol

Might be a play-style thing. I generally chose 'evade and escape' rather than 'slug it out' once the guard showed up, mainly because Ezio *isn't* death on legs. He's definitely dangerous, but most of the attacks I used were variations on 'kill defenseless target', 'disarm mook -> kill defenseless target', and 'drop smoke -> kill blind defenseless target'.

In watching the game, I noticed that even a crowd of supposedly elite enemies mostly existed for the protagonist to show off his extreme fighting skills.

In Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood*, Ezio is able to take down two plate-armoured soldiers per second if the player taps his buttons right, or so it looks to me. In plain Assassin's Creed 2, counterattacks were more important than straight attacks, which meant a slower pace of murdering, but most enemies were still baby seals in his hands.

In order to emulate the fighting feats of Ezio, a GURPS character needs active defences that remain at 14+ even when facing three or more foes at once. That's not easy or cheap, but I suppose that the minor mage gifts of the character can be leveraged here. If he knows Shield and Haste, he can add a +3 DB to himself as well as boosting Dodge by 3 or so. This takes his Parry 14 and Dodge 12 to Parry 17 and Dodge 18 for a short time. And that's enough to face a crowd and remain unscathed.

Am I right in assuming that many, if not most, of the counterattacks in the game incorporate unarmed moves? So Counterattack (Judo) might do well to simulate Ezio's style?

I figured that he'd then Parry with his sword or even Dodge and follow that up with a counterattack grapple to the torso and a thrust at +2 damage to the Vitals. Or, of course, the ever popular unarmed Judo Parry (aided, perhaps, by armoured bracers, it looked like) followed by a counterattack Arm Lock or Judo Throw and a finishing move with a knife or sword.

*Refered to by waggish tongues as AssBro.

Originally Posted by rosignol

I don't know if Ezio's ability is best simulated by high skill and chinks-in-armor, or just the kind of ST score you'd expect of someone who can free-climb hundred-meter towers... IMO, he's blatantly cinematic, and it would be entirely appropriate to throw things like Enhanced Move (Climbing) and some kind of Clinging into the mix rather than trying to get his mundane stats-n-skills to the point where the PC can do what is done in the video game.

Yes, I rather think that some of the feats in the game require ST 20-25 and Weapon Master. He slashes through plate armour with regularity.

On the other hand, most of the animation that has him killing people in one blow appears to give lip-service to the idea that he's supposed to be skilled enough to hit unprotected and fatal hit locations, not strong enough to cleave breastplates in twain.

Of course the character is blatantly cinematic. This does not worry me too much, as the setting metaphysics explicitly allow for mortals that transgress the bounds of their frail bodies and gain supernatural abilities.

On the other hand, even with 625 points, I know I can't really aim for a character that can do all the stuff Ezio can. I'd be satisfied if he could feel similar, without being as powerful. This goes double since a lot of points had to be spent on the magical espionage aspect of the character.

[rosignol]

Originally Posted by Icelander

In watching the game, I noticed that even a crowd of supposedly elite enemies mostly existed for the protagonist to show off his extreme fighting skills.

Um, yeah. Those are mooks.

In Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood*, Ezio is able to take down two plate-armoured soldiers

ITYM 'shiny mooks'. ;-)

per second if the player taps his buttons right, or so it looks to me.

If you're standing in the right place, *and* if the victims are both standing in the right place, *and* if you have the double-spike equipped, *and* if the victim doesn't see it coming, yeah, you can off two guys in one second. It's an unusual circumstance in AC2. Haven't played assbro yet- something to do with a fat guy in a red suit, etc.

In plain Assassin's Creed 2, counterattacks were more important than straight attacks, which meant a slower pace of murdering, but most enemies were still baby seals in his hands.

Ezio lives in the land of Mooktopia, which apparently has a strong resemblance to Renaissance Italy. Most of the actual challenges in the game consist of 'figure out how to get to the specified locaiton' or 'get from point A to point B in X time or less', or sometimes 'whack Mooks X, Y and Z without Mooks A though W (inclusive) noticing'.

Am I right in assuming that many, if not most, of the counterattacks in the game incorporate unarmed moves? So Counterattack (Judo) might do well to simulate Ezio's style?

It varies, mostly along rule-of-cool lines. Don't get to hung up on the details, I'm fairly certain the player, who you've said is unfamiliar with GURPS, isn't going to notice.

On the other hand, even with 625 points, I know I can't really aim for a character that can do all the stuff Ezio can. I'd be satisfied if he could feel similar, without being as powerful. This goes double since a lot of points had to be spent on the magical espionage aspect of the character.

Amusingly enough, occult powers are almost entirely absent from the game, and the 'espionage' Ezio engages in basically consists of finding a person and beating them until they talk. Or maybe I'm thinking of Altaïr.

[Lupo]

Originally Posted by Icelander

In Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood*, Ezio is able to take down two plate-armoured soldiers per second if the player taps his buttons right, or so it looks to me. (...)
In order to emulate the fighting feats of Ezio, a GURPS character needs active defences that remain at 14+ even when facing three or more foes at once.

I think this is just the "style" of the videogame, not a characteristic of Ezio himself. (btw, "Ezio Auditore" is perhaps the most ridicolously-sounding Italian name I've ever heard ^^)

In most videogames, you play solo and kill dozens and dozens of foes every few minutes... in most pen & paper RPGs, you play in a group and the average fight scene takes half an hour or more to complete.

So I think that the Assassin's capabilities should be modified and adapted to the new medium... which is very likely to involve fewer combats and fewer fighters per combat.

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Interesting. I did not know that this Pyramid included a martial art style.

Are there any new Perks or techniques with it or is it just a sorting of skills that any GM could do on his own?

All stuff you could do yourself.

Originally Posted by Icelander

Fencing?

From what I recall of the fighting in the game, Ezio is nearly always using heavier swords than most fencing weapons and using them in a manner that recalls his ancestor Altair. That is, he's not using a fencing stance and while he does Retreat, he certainly does not do it once per second.

I'd call his best weapon skills Knife and Broadsword, not Main-Gauche and Rapier. But I'm willing to be convinced otherwise by someone who has played the game extensively.

I suppose that's fair. I attribute that mostly to the need of videogames to have power-ups, but if you want to model it, I suppose Broadsword and Knife would be a better fit.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

I suppose that's fair. I attribute that mostly to the need of videogames to have power-ups, but if you want to model it, I suppose Broadsword and Knife would be a better fit.

I want to model the look and even specific moves, yes, but I'm not slavishly copying the character.

The ideal is to have the player, unfamiliar with GURPS rules, be able to say 'I want to do X, Y and Z like Ezio' and be able to answer 'Certainly. You have X-fu and Y-fu at 18 and Z imposes a -4 penalty to your own defences, which translates into a -4 to the opponent's defence. Roll against your effective Parry of 12 and then make an attack roll against an effective skill 14.'

But I've switched Broadsword skill for Shortsword, for example, simply because that fits the character that the player wants to play better than the noble heir Ezio Auditore. This character, while he may be intended to be able to do similar feats of arms and acrobatics, is very much not a disgraced noble. He learned his weapon skills from a rough childhood around college ruffians and thieves, not from a master-of-arms. Hence, Shortsword, which is common as a self-defence skill in many cities in the setting.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Lupo

In most videogames, you play solo and kill dozens and dozens of foes every few minutes... in most pen & paper RPGs, you play in a group and the average fight scene takes half an hour or more to complete.

So I think that the Assassin's capabilities should be modified and adapted to the new medium... which is very likely to involve fewer combats and fewer fighters per combat.

Fair enough.

On the other hand, the game the character is being created for features up to 800 point characters equipped with powerful magical items.

The warrior of the group has no problems accounting for more than two seasoned soldiers per turn of combat, especially if they are imprudent enough to do anything other than defend to the best of their ability. The merchant is a fine fencer and knifefighter as well and while he may not excel at facing down multiple skilled foes, he can certainly kill two men in one second under the right circumstances (say, they don't know they are in combat). The Eastern warrior scholar tends to kill one foe per second and can do so pretty reliably even at ranges of hundreds of yards. Even the runt of the litter, a sorcerous orphan with a bloodline of elemental fire, is able to incinerate common soldiers at an alarming rate.

While neither of the two* new characters being introduced is meant to be a front-line combatant, the spy/assassin/illusionist should, by the tone and tenor of the game, probably be able to face down a patrol of soldiers and tell them, perfectly truthfully, that they are not paid enough to offer him resistance.

*The other is a half-elven herald, educated at a bardic college, and more capable with song or speech than a sword. If pressed, he will naturally fight elegantly.

[rosignol]

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

[....] Disguise if we're going by his supposed ability as opposed to magical ability to blend into crowds, [...]

I think it was mentioned upthread, but IMO Ezio's 'blend into the crowd' ability is just about a perfect example of Invisibility Art (limitation: only in groups of 4 or more people, not including yourself).

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by rosignol

It varies, mostly along rule-of-cool lines. Don't get to hung up on the details, I'm fairly certain the player, who you've said is unfamiliar with GURPS, isn't going to notice.

The player will certainly not know what GURPS rules are being used. On the other hand, the entire purpose of me acquiring a basic knowledge of the fighting moves of Ezio Auditore is so that we can be speaking the same language when it comes to narratively describing the actions of his PC in combat.

For example, while the player would, indeed, not notice whether or not his character had Counterattack (Judo), he would expect to be able to say 'I wait for him to try to stab me, step to the side to avoid his sword and then grab his wrist and pull him toward me while stabbing my knife down between his neck and clavicle'*. And he would expect his character to have the skills and techniques necessary to pull off most of the common moves from Assassin's Creed 2.

This means that I need to know what those moves are, so I can model them in game terms and assign the character the right traits.

*In game terms, probably best done as Evaluate followed by a Judo Parry, and then either an All-Out Attack (Double) or Rapid Strike, depending on skill, for a Counterattack Judo Arm Lock and Reverse Gripped Knife Thrust/Junction of Clavical and Neck**.
**Probably Neck Veins/Arteries by the book, but using my slightly adjusted hit location rules, counts as Vitals as well as an attack on the subclavical artery, for a -8 to hit.

Originally Posted by rosignol

Amusingly enough, occult powers are almost entirely absent from the game, and the 'espionage' Ezio engages in basically consists of finding a person and beating them until they talk. Or maybe I'm thinking of Altaïr.

Yes, this character will be far better than Ezio at spying. At the cost, one assumes, of being somewhat worse at climbing, falling from great heights and absolutely murdering everyone he wants to.

[Anders]

Shouldn't he have Unkillable or an enormous number of Extra Lives? :)