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Old 06-27-2016, 12:04 AM   #11
Andreas
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Default Re: Power: Holy Light

Different people seeing light at different intensity should probably greatly increase the value of such an ability. Being able to use light that your opponents (this might not include all opponents, but it is often possible to choose to attack the kind of enemies you have an advantage against) can't perceive can be a huge advantage in a fight. In many situations it can be roughly as valuable as giving your entire party the Dark Vision advantage.

There are also other valuable uses of such an ability. You can use it to detect evil and virtuous people.

5 points is probably way too cheap. 50 points (30 for you and your allies being able to see in the dark without affecting the vision of certain enemies, 15 points for being able to indirectly detect the morality of people and 5 points for the morale boosting effect) seems more reasonable.
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Old 06-27-2016, 12:55 AM   #12
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Default Re: Power: Holy Light

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas View Post
Different people seeing light at different intensity should probably greatly increase the value of such an ability. Being able to use light that your opponents (this might not include all opponents, but it is often possible to choose to attack the kind of enemies you have an advantage against) can't perceive can be a huge advantage in a fight. In many situations it can be roughly as valuable as giving your entire party the Dark Vision advantage.

There are also other valuable uses of such an ability. You can use it to detect evil and virtuous people.

5 points is probably way too cheap. 50 points (30 for you and your allies being able to see in the dark without affecting the vision of certain enemies, 15 points for being able to indirectly detect the morality of people and 5 points for the morale boosting effect) seems more reasonable.
A +1 to morale and fright checks for a small group of peoples in some defined circumstances is a perk.
A vague alignement detect is probably worth around 10, including reflexive, and a huge discount because you don't have direct knowledge of the result. (I don't have my book here, so just a guess)
As quoted upthread, the light effect is apparently worth [10/level], working on allies/friend only is a selective enhancement + link to detect.

All together, I would price it around 20, +10/level after the first. (including up to +4 level of morale bonus).

Last edited by Celjabba; 06-27-2016 at 01:08 AM.
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Old 06-27-2016, 02:35 AM   #13
Andreas
 
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Default Re: Power: Holy Light

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Originally Posted by Celjabba View Post
A +1 to morale and fright checks for a small group of peoples in some defined circumstances is a perk.
A vague alignement detect is probably worth around 10, including reflexive, and a huge discount because you don't have direct knowledge of the result. (I don't have my book here, so just a guess)
As quoted upthread, the light effect is apparently worth [10/level], working on allies/friend only is a selective enhancement + link to detect.

All together, I would price it around 20, +10/level after the first. (including up to +4 level of morale bonus).
It is definitely way more valuable than a perk. Just getting those effects for the user of the ability is worth more than that (Fearlessness costs two points per level). Remember that generating the light does not require concentration, you can effortlessly keep it on anytime you want. Arguably it should also include a reaction bonus for a very small group (worshipers of Su'en).

Unlike this ability, the Detect advantage requires concentration and a roll. Removing those limitations would be expensive. Also such morality would probably be a common category, so you would have a base cost of 20 points. I don't think that there would be enough limitations to reduce it to 10 points (and very possibly not 15 points either).

If you allow a Selective Effect +20% to do that (which while very cheap compared to Dark Vision, seems roughly in line with the examples in Powers) a cost of 30 points (12+15+5 rounding down) seems reasonable.

Last edited by Andreas; 06-27-2016 at 02:38 AM.
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Old 06-27-2016, 09:44 AM   #14
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Default Re: Power: Holy Light

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Different people seeing light at different intensity should probably greatly increase the value of such an ability. Being able to use light that your opponents (this might not include all opponents, but it is often possible to choose to attack the kind of enemies you have an advantage against) can't perceive can be a huge advantage in a fight. In many situations it can be roughly as valuable as giving your entire party the Dark Vision advantage.
Sure. But this PC is the only PC who worships a deity that has been 'dead' (or at least slumbering) for over two thousand years. There might theoretically be other worshippers of the dead god, but not even the bard PC can remember having heard of any organised faith of Su'en surviving into modern times.

Even if the PCs find such cultists, it's far from certain that the majority of PCs will accept allying with them, as that might cause problems with other allies they have.

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There are also other valuable uses of such an ability. You can use it to detect evil and virtuous people.
Indirectly and assuming that the characters will tell the truth about what they see and don't just lie about it, using information they've gleaned from naive virtous people who saw the light.

It's not worthless in that way, but it's worth less than plenty of Protection & Warning spells, not to mention Communication and Mind-Control spells. And as the character already has Magery 4 and Modular Ability to memorise spells, as well as knowing several dozens, it's worth 0-2 points for him to pick up spells much better suited to detecting wickedness and good people.

The holy light is a cool ability that is distinct from his spellcasting, but it's not otherwise very valuable. It provides a justification for buying beneficial Afflictions that affect worshippers of Su'en and even all innocents or good people, as well as Afflictions and Innate Attacks that affect foes of Su'en, but those will only develop if the PC chooses to spend future earned CPs on them.

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5 points is probably way too cheap. 50 points (30 for you and your allies being able to see in the dark without affecting the vision of certain enemies, 15 points for being able to indirectly detect the morality of people and 5 points for the morale boosting effect) seems more reasonable.
Every one of the PCs can already see in the dark, by casting Night Vision or Dark Vision, or having a friendly spellcaster do so. About 40% of them carry items so that they don't have to bother.

In setting, for heroes of the caliber that the PCs are, minor magical aids can be bought with $ and all the adventuring party has Multimillionaire 1 or higher.

So seeing in the dark or creating a certain amount of light are both valid as Accessory Perks in the setting, because the PCs can buy these abilities for a fraction of their monthly Cost of Living.

Let's take the morale-boosting out of the equation. I think that's something that I can easily stat myself. What is the light itself worth?

Using Create seems overkill for something that is not so much creating something from nothing as it is turning on a light-source, of which many non-magical or fungible magical ones exist.

Also, Create takes an action and costs FP, just like casting spells. So it's not that suitable for something that is more instinctive and less tiring than simply casting Light, Continual Light, Glow or Daylight.
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Old 06-27-2016, 09:46 AM   #15
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Default Re: Power: Holy Light

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Arguably it should also include a reaction bonus for a very small group (worshipers of Su'en).
Already handled by the reaction bonus for Very Blessed and a level of Charisma that is granted by having been imbued with holy essence.
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Old 06-27-2016, 11:41 AM   #16
simply Nathan
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Default Re: Power: Holy Light

Power Investiture and Mage Light/Continual Mage Light limited to those with Power Investiture of this deity rather than to those with Magery?

Seems like a long way to go though...
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Old 06-27-2016, 11:44 AM   #17
Andreas
 
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Default Re: Power: Holy Light

If it is redundant with what the PCs can already do to that extent, then it would certainly be a bad purchase for them at the costs I suggested. Pricing being able to see in the dark as an Accessory Perks like that might be fair in this case (assuming that this power, like magical items, don't work in no-mana-zones).

However it might be a good idea to be more careful with reducing the cost for the detect morality functionality. Spells are often possible to resist (and even divination spells that don't can often be protected from with other spells or advantages such as Mind Shield).
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Indirectly and assuming that the characters will tell the truth about what they see and don't just lie about it, using information they've gleaned from naive virtous people who saw the light.
Well, people generally react if someone suddenly shine a bright light in their eyes. Sure it would be unreliable to show the light to a huge crowd of people and then later ask them how much light they saw, but there are plenty of ways to get pretty good reliability if you use it on a smaller scale.

Last edited by Andreas; 06-27-2016 at 11:50 AM.
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Old 06-28-2016, 08:48 PM   #18
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Default Re: Power: Holy Light

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If it is redundant with what the PCs can already do to that extent, then it would certainly be a bad purchase for them at the costs I suggested. Pricing being able to see in the dark as an Accessory Perks like that might be fair in this case (assuming that this power, like magical items, don't work in no-mana-zones).
The specific PC knows Night Vision and Dark Vision spells himself, though he often allows less warlike NPCs to cast it on him before battles so as not to suffer a -1 to his own spells by maintaining them.

His 'package' deal of divine powers gained at this point will also include a see in the dark power, i.e. Night Vision 9 (Good Power -30%). I hadn't even considered this divine light power as adding any night-vision functionality at all, just a cool way to mark the character on a battlefield if he chooses to draw attention to himself.

For the 99% of people in the campaign world who are neither servants nor foes of a deity defunct for millenia, it's just the spell Continual Light with the limitation that the caster must be the target and the enhancement that it doesn't take an action to cast.

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However it might be a good idea to be more careful with reducing the cost for the detect morality functionality. Spells are often possible to resist (and even divination spells that don't can often be protected from with other spells or advantages such as Mind Shield).
Hmmm.... I suppose that the eyes of good and bad people perceive the light identically, with just the mind interpreting it differently. So everyone except a rare few (demons, possessed people, priests of certain evil gods) see a light and exhibits physical signs of doing so, but there is no reliable way to determine how much light they subjectively experience if you cannot already read their minds reliably.

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Well, people generally react if someone suddenly shine a bright light in their eyes. Sure it would be unreliable to show the light to a huge crowd of people and then later ask them how much light they saw, but there are plenty of ways to get pretty good reliability if you use it on a smaller scale.
Everyone except possessed people, demons or priests of opposing gods would see light. It would just vary in brightness.
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