Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-07-2010, 04:50 PM   #141
BMR
 
BMR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Near the Heart of the Valley, Oregon country
Default Re: Relative Bulk for Battle Rifles

Quote:
Originally Posted by rosignol View Post
What he said, except I'd go with a smoothbore.

Murphy's law of comedic relief dictates that at some point, a couple of clueless FBI agents are going to wander onto the scene and start making wildly inaccurate guesses as to what's going on. It would be best for whatever they turn up to not lead to you.
In my zeal to defend humanity from FOE (Forces of Evil), I forgot all about Mulder and Scully. If a slug does not deform or fragment enough to be unclear, then this is going to put the law, the vigilantes, and the evil on a collision course of cataclysmic proportions. Perhaps the manufacturer even test fires a shot at the factory, then entires the slug into a record that the FBI can access. Ya know, Icelander's heroes need to start getting involved with the underground weapon smithing and market as soon as possible.

However, is Icelander going for a squeaky clean legal image for his heroes, or is he simply abiding by limited sources for weapons? Say, his heroes don't know any gun smugglers that deal in anything better than liquor store robbery guns.
__________________
I stick with mainstream physics right up to the point that it gets into decimal places, whereupon I gladly step back into liberal arts." --brianranzoni.com

Bored with power cells? Try Paper Cells!
BMR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2010, 04:57 PM   #142
DouglasCole
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
 
DouglasCole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
Default Re: Relative Bulk for Battle Rifles

In my Black Ops setting, I used semi-combustible sabot rounds. The barrel was oversized (say, .308 for a .223 projectile, or 11mm to fire 7.62 rounds) but the bullet had no tell-tale rifling marks.

this, of course, was in a way a give-away of it's own, in that "no marks" is distinctive. But it denied the usual link and matchups.

Another high-tech variant would be to use a combustible lining that took the rifling, but put ANOTHER weapon's forensic footprint on the fired projectile (first. each bullet came pre-scribed with some other gun's prints, as it were)

Totally BS cinematic stuff, but that meant it totally fit for Black Ops genre. ;-)
__________________
My blog:Gaming Ballistic, LLC
My Store: Gaming Ballistic on Shopify
My Patreon: Gaming Ballistic on Patreon
DouglasCole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2010, 05:27 PM   #143
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Re: Relative Bulk for Battle Rifles

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMR View Post
An M1A by itself wouldn't be a bad idea. I don't consider an 18 inch barrel to be cut down excessively for 7.62/308 Winchester.
The Springfield Armory M1A Scout Squad, SOCOM 16 and SOCOM II all seem pretty much ideal for the role. The latter two seem like extra money for a 'tactical' look and they are probably less likely to be in stock in a Massachusetts gun store, so the M1A Scount Squad would seem fine.

Of course, it's most likely that an M1A National Match is all that is available, but if that's so, well, it shouldn't matter all that much. GURPS gives 'em all the same stats, pretty much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMR View Post
Here's some other questions: do you really want your Fearless Foe Fighters using NATO ammo? I'm not saying that it is a bad idea, I'm just asking if you have a particular operational requirement beyond making sure you maintain performance in a weapon that was designed for these cartridges.
That's up to them, of course.

It's an investigative game where they know that if they break the laws, their characters will probably go to jail. But events from the last session led to the players ending it with shouts of 'We're gonna need some bigger guns!'

When the foes are already dead, putting neat little holes in them isn't going to accomplish much. They want something that tumbles, preferably fragments, and blows great chunks of bone and muscle away. And they found that their 9mm pistols with the regulation 10-round magazines were utterly inadequate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMR View Post
An M1A may or may not be able to reliably chamber a hot-loaded 0.308 Winchester hollowpoint, soft-tip, or soft filling jacketed round. Assuming your Bad Things aren't armored, of course. And with a ten round magazine, the profile is slim enough. You could worse for a close in weapon against a high ST/HT foe.
It will shoot nearly all commercial .308 ammo as well as 7.62x51mm NATO. For best results, bullets should be between 168-173 grains and sustained use of 180+ grain bullets will probably end up in damaging your gun. Soft-tip causes long term reliability problems as well, but bullets like the Nosler Ballistic Tip are fine.

Shooting hot reloads will void the warranty and might cause long-term problem with the gun, but it won't blow it up and it will probably work fine for an engagement or two with the Inhuman (and at that point, the warranty of your gun is the least of your concerns).

For bonus joy, the two ex-lawmen in the party have Class A LTCs and are therefore licenced to buy 'high-capacity' rifles if I read the Massachusetts laws right. So they can buy themselves some 20-round mags if they find them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMR View Post
In this way, you can look at a tactical pairing: shotgunners up front and marksmen right behind. The shotgunner is either a tank or very fast on the uptake, giving the marksman time to get in his more precise shots.
The party is a Harvard academic, a young lawyer from a good family with future political ambitions, an ex-cop and military policeman and finally a bodyguard/security systems specialist who learned his trade in the Bureau of Prison's special SORT unit.

No matter what they buy, they are going to have to keep it out of sight. So an imperfect weapon that can be hidden in an innocuous sporting bag is far superior to a mobile death ray that will stick out and alarm bystanders and authorities.

Looks like the smallest they can legally buy is Bulk -4 shotguns or 5.56mm carbines or Bulk -5* shotguns and 7.62mm carbines.

That and Bulk -3 pistols made as back-up weapons for bear-hunters, of course. Though I wouldn't be surprised if Massachusetts found some way to ban high-powered revolvers too, probably on the basis of unloaded weight or something. Does anyone know if the Ruger Super Redhawk and similar guns are legal in MA?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMR View Post
Both, of course, are going to need those special ear plugs that allow normal communication, but block out loud noises. If you fire either of these weapons in doors or even just in close proximity to trees and rocks, your characters will soon go deaf.
The deafness issue is one they'll put some careful thought into. A firefight in an abandoned subway tunnel has left them with ringing eardrums. Only high HT and good rolls kept them from suffering some permanent hearing damage.

Do you know where one can buy those ear plugs? Are they going to be in stock in Massachusetts gunstores or do they need to order online? The thing is, they don't really know how long their characters have, but they know that events are moving along whether or not they are involved. So a wait of some days is pretty much out. They can devote an hour or two, maximum three, to obtaining weapons capable of stopping a corpse animated by a malevolent spirit, but then they have to move on with their investigation before there are no more surviving witnesses.
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Icelander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2010, 05:38 PM   #144
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Re: Relative Bulk for Battle Rifles

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMR View Post
In my zeal to defend humanity from FOE (Forces of Evil), I forgot all about Mulder and Scully. If a slug does not deform or fragment enough to be unclear, then this is going to put the law, the vigilantes, and the evil on a collision course of cataclysmic proportions. Perhaps the manufacturer even test fires a shot at the factory, then entires the slug into a record that the FBI can access.
The FBI would love this, but it is my understanding that the NRA and most civil right groups that are concerned with the 2nd Amendment and/or the right to privacy would be jumping on any such proposal like a ton of bricks. If I'm wrong and this really happens, though, I'd like to know about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMR View Post
Ya know, Icelander's heroes need to start getting involved with the underground weapon smithing and market as soon as possible.
As it happens, one hero spent 20 points on Contacts in that line of work. ;)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMR View Post
However, is Icelander going for a squeaky clean legal image for his heroes, or is he simply abiding by limited sources for weapons? Say, his heroes don't know any gun smugglers that deal in anything better than liquor store robbery guns.
Up until now, they had been squeaky clean (and I do mean squeaky clean). Former ADA, former Boston PD detective, a licensed security expert on an extended leave of absence from Federal service in the BOP SORT and a Harvard tenured professor.

But, when faced with the supernatural and the evil, that might change. I'm at least going to research the possibilities for my session tomorrow, knowing that the players are going to want some better guns. Maybe they'll elect to buy legal guns only and maybe not. We'll see.

If not, what illegal guns are likely to be available in Boston? Most will come through the 'Iron Pipeline' down the I-95, I realise, and the majority will be semi-automatic pistols, but what else can one find? Does the Boston underworld reflect US nationwide preferences when it comes to guns (so I can use the available statistics on what guns are most often used in crimes) or are there local trends of which I need to be aware?

Considering the US as a whole, actual illegal assault rifles and such are extremely rare. Even submachine guns and semi-automatic pistols illegally converted to full automatic are exceptionally rarely used in crimes in the real world. Crooks carry .25 ACP Saturday Night Specials made by one of the 'Ring of Fire' companies because they are broke, ignorant and tend to throw the weapons away after crimes anyway. The marginally better off might have cheap 9mm automatics instead and a few of them are smart enough to know that .38 Spcl revolvers don't leave brass on the scene.
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Icelander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2010, 05:41 PM   #145
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Re: Relative Bulk for Battle Rifles

Thanks for your help, guys.

Strictly, though, this discussion would probably be a better fit for this thread, which is about said game and where I ask questions when I need local knowledge.

If you'd all nip over there with your weaponry speculation and answers, that would be great. ;)
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Icelander is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
guns, high-tech

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.