Slings!

[tbone]

From a recent demonstration in Gaza, there's a photo of a slinger going viral right now: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/...113924724.html

Setting aside any politics behind the photo (please!), you'll immediately note two things:


a) The impact of the photograph itself – its amazing painting-like quality. (Gaming relevance? Uh... Someone made a really good roll against Photography.)

b) That sling. Yeah, I've seen slings before, but this photo is a reminder that the weapon can be really long. Something like that would certainly need some space to swing – and maybe a second or two to get up to proper speed?


There's nothing wrong with GURPS' single sling model; the weapon doesn't see enough game usage to warrant lots of detail (though, interestingly, it's an ancient missile weapon that's stuck around through every TL). But maybe someone with slinging experience could weight in on these questions. Just out of curiosity:


1) How short can effective slings get? Can they be significantly shorter that the one in the photo? (Can they be longer?)

2) For detail lovers, would it be meaningful to stat, say, three different lengths of slings? Range would vary among them; what else would? Requirements for open space around the linger? Time required too, maybe?

3) GURPS doesn't much get into the matter of space required for effective fighting; by the rules, you can be packed into a one-fighter-per-hex formation and still swing greataxes and longswords and slings all you like. Out of curiosity, has anyone played around with setting space requirements for effectively swinging such long weapons?

4) DFRPG offers something called a Heavy Sling, which I think just throws bigger rocks at reduced range. Is that a fantasy thing, or is there a real weapon that equates to Heavy Sling?


Pondering all things sling today,

[DouglasCole]

Underground adventures comes with some detail on the space required to wield big weapons in small spaces

[Purple Haze]

That appears to be about the standard length I would expect a sling to have.

[Rasna]

Originally Posted by tbone

1) How short can effective slings get? Can they be significantly shorter that the one in the photo? (Can they be longer?)

2) For detail lovers, would it be meaningful to stat, say, three different lengths of slings? Range would vary among them; what else would? Requirements for open space around the linger? Time required too, maybe?

3) GURPS doesn't much get into the matter of space required for effective fighting; by the rules, you can be packed into a one-fighter-per-hex formation and still swing greataxes and longswords and slings all you like. Out of curiosity, has anyone played around with setting space requirements for effectively swinging such long weapons?

4) DFRPG offers something called a Heavy Sling, which I think just throws bigger rocks at reduced range. Is that a fantasy thing, or is there a real weapon that equates to Heavy Sling?


Pondering all things sling today,

1) Yes, an effective sling can be shorter, maybe up to half the length of the sling which appears in photo.


2) To be completely realistic, different length means different range, accuracy and hitting power, as well less or more space in order to utilize the weapon properly. Hoping for a "Deadly Spring" for slings in future!

4) All Low-Tech weapons are real, although some of them were rarely utilized in a historical fighting context (es. Great Axe, Maul, Gada).

[Rasna]

Originally Posted by tbone

1) How short can effective slings get? Can they be significantly shorter that the one in the photo? (Can they be longer?)

2) For detail lovers, would it be meaningful to stat, say, three different lengths of slings? Range would vary among them; what else would? Requirements for open space around the linger? Time required too, maybe?

3) GURPS doesn't much get into the matter of space required for effective fighting; by the rules, you can be packed into a one-fighter-per-hex formation and still swing greataxes and longswords and slings all you like. Out of curiosity, has anyone played around with setting space requirements for effectively swinging such long weapons?

4) DFRPG offers something called a Heavy Sling, which I think just throws bigger rocks at reduced range. Is that a fantasy thing, or is there a real weapon that equates to Heavy Sling?


Pondering all things sling today,

1) Yes, an effective sling can be shorter, maybe up to half the length of the sling which appears in photo. https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/wp...-The-Sling.jpg


2) To be completely realistic, different length means different range, accuracy and hitting power, as well less or more space in order to utilize the weapon properly. Hoping for a "Deadly Spring" for slings in future!

4) All Low-Tech weapons are real, although some of them were rarely utilized in a historical fighting context (es. Great Axe, Maul, Gada).

[Ashtagon]

Originally Posted by tbone

From a recent demonstration in Gaza, there's a photo of a slinger going viral right now: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/...113924724.html

Setting aside any politics behind the photo (please!), you'll immediately note two things:


a) The impact of the photograph itself – its amazing painting-like quality. (Gaming relevance? Uh... Someone made a really good roll against Photography.)

b) That sling. Yeah, I've seen slings before, but this photo is a reminder that the weapon can be really long. Something like that would certainly need some space to swing – and maybe a second or two to get up to proper speed

The length of the sling looks to be around 3-4 feet. According to slinging org, that's well within normal sling lengths, albeit at the upper end of what is common.

https://web.archive.org/web/20111004...e=sling-ranges

There's nothing wrong with GURPS' single sling model; the weapon doesn't see enough game usage to warrant lots of detail (though, interestingly, it's an ancient missile weapon that's stuck around through every TL). But maybe someone with slinging experience could weight in on these questions. Just out of curiosity:


1) How short can effective slings get? Can they be significantly shorter that the one in the photo? (Can they be longer?)

Actual lengths range from two to six feet. Longer sling lengths grant longer ranges (or trade off range for bullet weight).

2) For detail lovers, would it be meaningful to stat, say, three different lengths of slings? Range would vary among them; what else would? Requirements for open space around the linger? Time required too, maybe?

2, 4, and 6-foot slings would seem to be the most common options. Also, I've read reports of staff-slings, but they've been inconsistent as to whether it's a sling on a stick that is swung, or if the stick is planted in the ground and used as an ersatz catapult/slingshot.

3) GURPS doesn't much get into the matter of space required for effective fighting; by the rules, you can be packed into a one-fighter-per-hex formation and still swing greataxes and longswords and slings all you like. Out of curiosity, has anyone played around with setting space requirements for effectively swinging such long weapons?

4) DFRPG offers something called a Heavy Sling, which I think just throws bigger rocks at reduced range. Is that a fantasy thing, or is there a real weapon that equates to Heavy Sling?

Pondering all things sling today,

Generally, anything in Low-Tech probably existed in real life somewhere. However, I'd not automatically consider everything in Dungeon Fantasy to be real, and stuff from Fantasy-Tech is almost certainly not real.

[shawnhcorey]

1) Slings can be so short that they little more than just the pouch. The shorter the sling, the more accurate. Sling can only be as long as they don't hit the ground on the down stroke.

2) Longer slings have more power, and thus more range and damage. A sling needs little open space to the sides but overhead, they need the height of the outstretched arm plus the length of the sling, about twice the height of the slinger. More time is spend reloading the sling than casting. Casting takes about as long as throwing a ball.

3) One slinger per hex is more than enough space. But the overhead space requirement is almost double the height of the slinger.

4) I don't know what they mean by a heavy sling but the sling staff is a short sling attached to the end of a staff. The longer the staff, the more powerful it is. But they do have a greater overhead requirement.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by tbone

4) DFRPG offers something called a Heavy Sling, which I think just throws bigger rocks at reduced range. Is that a fantasy thing, or is there a real weapon that equates to Heavy Sling?

That's really all the difference there is - weight of the ammunition and to some degree size of the pouch. It's the difference between the shepherds tool for throwing finger sized rocks (or lead bullets in more military versions) and the rioters weapon for throwing palm filling cobblestones (or grenades).

[tbone]

Originally Posted by malloyd

That's really all the difference there is - weight of the ammunition and to some degree size of the pouch. It's the difference between the shepherds tool for throwing finger sized rocks (or lead bullets in more military versions) and the rioters weapon for throwing palm filling cobblestones (or grenades).

That sounds right to me.

Actually, I don't see any mention in DFRPG that the Heavy Sling can be used to hurl grenades – in fact, Exploits names only DX, Throwing, and Throwing Art as grenade-hurling skills. But the Heavy Sling sounds perfect! It hurls 1-lb. ammo, and the grenades that PCs want to hurl are also 1 lb. The increase in range for heavy-slinging (from STx2 to STx6) is a nice improvement, but far from overpowering. In short, this must be done!

(I think you've just changed some future combat scenarios for me; maybe for other readers too.)

Thanks to all for the replies. It's a bit tempting to write up some different sling lengths & their effects, and some more generic rule for varying ammunition weight – but for now I'll play with RAW (and grenade-slinging) and see how it goes.

[jason taylor]

I always wondered why the sling was not more widespread then it was because it's ability to fold makes it a very effective potential sidearm. It can also use a knot to put a staff or another length on and get more leverage out of a small sling. If the rope is tough enough it will serve as garrote, and with a knot as a non-lethal flail.