Delvers to Go in the Dark

[martinl]

It seems pretty easy to assemble a team of DFRPG pregens from the Delvers to Go and not get anyone with a torch or lantern. Many of the casters have relevant spells, but not every group picks up such a caster, and they may want to use their energy and focus elsewhere.

A few torches would be a good addition to some of them.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by martinl

A few torches would be a good addition to some of them.

That was my immediate complaint when I read them, but I believe the response was "Everyone has enough loose change for a few torches of they want them."


Which is terrible advice if you want to use Delvers to Go and are a newb GM with newb Players.

[martinl]

My assumption from the name was they are "ready to go."

"Of course you have a few torches" is an easy GM call, but it's still annoying.

[mlangsdorf]

Alternate viewpoint: the inclusion of torches in previous "grab and go" equipment packages, instead of superior options that people actually use (Continual Light spells, glow vials, helmet/shield lanterns), was seriously annoying. It cluttered the equipment lists with stuff that people didn't really use.

I'd rather see the grab-and-go delvers without the inclusion of torches, and a delver's checklist presented:

1. Something to let you see in dark places
2. Something to let you get past locked doors
3. A way to fight dangerous enemies at a distance
4. A way to fight enemies with DR 10+
5. A way to fight enemies with very high defenses
6. A way to move a very heavy object
7. Enough food to get you to the delve site and back
8. A way to heal HP damage
9. All of the above, but without using magic

Then let the players look over their collective characters, see what they have and don't have, and let them decide how to address it - whether that means buying torches or glow vials or deciding that everyone has Night Vision 7 and it doesn't matter.

[Bruno]

Players do seem to gravitate towards hands-free lighting as soon as its possible (much as "adventurers" in real life do). You need your hands for too many unexpected things.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

Alternate viewpoint: the inclusion of torches in previous "grab and go" equipment packages, instead of superior options that people actually use (Continual Light spells, glow vials, helmet/shield lanterns), was seriously annoying. It cluttered the equipment lists with stuff that people didn't really use.

That's one of those 'opinion' things. My group always carries lanterns and torches (at least a few hours worth) just in case.

Granted, not everyone carried a lantern or a torch, sometimes it was just one guy who carried the back up... sometimes it was left at the camp site, but it was packed along for missions just in case.

I'd rather see the grab-and-go delvers without the inclusion of torches, and a delver's checklist presented:

1. Something to let you see in dark places
2. Something to let you get past locked doors
3. A way to fight dangerous enemies at a distance
4. A way to fight enemies with DR 10+
5. A way to fight enemies with very high defenses
6. A way to move a very heavy object
7. Enough food to get you to the delve site and back
8. A way to heal HP damage
9. All of the above, but without using magic

Then let the players look over their collective characters, see what they have and don't have, and let them decide how to address it - whether that means buying torches or glow vials or deciding that everyone has Night Vision 7 and it doesn't matter.

That would be a brilliant list to have as a hand out for newbs and experienced groups[list=yoinked].

I can't count the number of first missions where I've heard "But I figured the mage would have a light spell so we wouldn't need lanterns" and the mage saying "No, I'm a blaster... so I could light you up with a fireball."



My only quibble is that (IME) #7 should be "Twice the food and water needed to see you through the delve and back".

[martinl]

If adventurers are supposed to be using some form of non-torch lighting, then include that instead. If as a group decision they are supposed to grab some lighting options, than a sidebar or two might be useful.

But in my opinion you should be able to grab any reasonable assortment of delvers from a book called "Delvers to Go" and go delving.

mlangsdorf's list is a good one for experienced folks to pore over, but if I handed to to a bunch of well-groomed casuals intending to jump straight into a quick and dirty three hour delve, (as I do) they'd spend the first two hours and fifty nine minutes carefully considering their options. Part of the goal of DFRPG is to reduce the system mastery and chargen overhead that GURPS is so infamous for, no?

[tbone]

If I may step aside from the Delvers to Go crew's lack of lighting equipment for a second, there's another thing to take note of before racing into the dungeon with these pregens:

GURPS and DFRPG do a good job of pointing out "everybody needs 'em" skills like Climbing, Hiking, and Stealth, where the party's effectiveness may be limited by the character with the lowest skill. (Adventurers 82 offers some discussion, though I think How to Be a GURPS GM goes into the most detail.) Overall, the Delvers crew does a good job of displaying those skills, but watch out – there are gaps. Yvor Gryffyn looks like the worst offender here: No Climbing, Hiking, Stealth, or Swimming!

I wouldn't call that an oversight in the Delvers book. First, someone like Yvor won't be terrible at those skills by default. When he does fail, it should be fun to play this honorable knight's reaction when he falls behind and needs a hand from his pals. And the lack of some core skills may fit a character concept just fine. (It's easy to imagine Yvor, for example, saying, "I do not scurry up trees and paddle in rivers like a boy, nor do I sneak like a thief; I do battle with the enemies of the King. And I do not hike into that battle, I ride.")

Not a bad thing, just something to watch out for when grabbing a Delvers character. Check the skills, and make some minor alterations if you want to avoid being the weakest link with one of these skills.

All right then. Back to how these fine delvers can see where they're going in the dark...

[ajardoor]

The simple solution: Wizard. Light spell. I have not got Delvers to Go, so that might not help...

And I think some PCs missing vital skills tends to be a natural obstacle/puzzle that clever players are meant to work around in a team-based game.

("Thief; you need to find a way to transport your big dumb heavy colleague up to where the exit is. Check your surroundings and inventory for stuff to make a lift.")

("No choice but to split the party, huh? Alright, I'll go on ahead. You cover me with missile weapons from afar while I disable the traps around the other door." [Remember the bit from Resident Evil 4 where you had Ashley raise the bridges while you shot bad guys with a sniper rifle?])